What are the Key Factors for Victory in the 2008 Presidential Election?

[LowlyPion]

And modest to boot.

Humble too.

I am but a lowly pion.

 

[LowlyPion]

But it can also be seen as a transparent political ploy, when he could just as easily appear at the debate, insist the discussion be all about the economy, and talk this through with Obama." The adviser's prediction: It will play out as a political ploy.

That's what I'd figure too.

The campaign is a moving target.

He can't aim for where it is. He has to aim where it's going to be.

He's demonstrated really poor skills dealing with the issues of the economy. Dealing with the tactics of the campaign. All he's succeeded in doing is make Obama look more Presidential, and Obama is supposed to be the one with less experience. With a blindfold on I'd think it was McCain that's acted the rookie.

 

[Astronuc]

"It's my belief that this is exactly the time that the American people need to hear from the person who in approximately 40 days will be responsible for dealing with this mess," Obama said. "It's going to be part of the president's job to deal with more than one thing at once."

Hmmm. I can see Obama is quite eager to start the job. However, the next president will be elected in 40 days, but he will not assume the office until Jan 20, 2009, which is 117 days away.

Until then GW Bush is still on watch.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Hmmm. I can see Obama is quite eager to start the job. However, the next president will be elected in 40 days, but he will not assume the office until Jan 20, 2009, which is 117 days away.

Until then GW Bush is still on watch.

I caught that as well. And note that he even hestitated for a second when he said it.

The fact is that on Nov 5th, the President Elect will be actively engaged.

However, it you are all agreeable, I think we should let Obama take over on Nov 5th.

All opposed?
...
...
The motion passes.

 

[LowlyPion]

I caught that as well. And note that he even hestitated for a second when he said it.

The fact is that on Nov 5th, the President Elect will be actively engaged.

However, it you are all agreeable, I think we should let Obama take over on Nov 5th.

All opposed?
...
...
The motion passes.

Too bad it can't be earlier.

 

[turbo]

Obama was right-on. About 40 days from now, either he or McCain will be responsible for dealing with the mess left by W. While the president-elect will not have the authority to deal with the mess at the official level, you can bet your buttons that they will be meeting with advisers, getting briefings, and devising strategies to deal with the problem(s) that they will face. They certainly shouldn't be cooling their heels in the interim.

 

[LowlyPion]

I saw a new ad today, not by the Obama campaign, but apparently a PAC, describing the dangers of skin cancer, and that McCain has had 4 bouts with it, and requesting that John McCain release his medical records, because his chances at survival, if it has spread beyond the skin is very poor. If it has and he is elected, apparently there would be a President Palin.

But apparently McCain has refused.

 

[Astronuc]

Apparently McCain is trying to steal the show - grandstanding with misrepresentation - and it's upsetting a few Republican/conservatives.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_s_gambit

WASHINGTON - Sen. John McCain's self-portrait as a bold leader willing to set politics aside to save an endangered financial bailout plan took a pounding Thursday from top Democrats and even some fellow Republicans.

His efforts to re-energize his presidential campaign will partly turn on who wins the public relations battle, destined to play out for days.

Top Democrats in Congress ridiculed McCain's claim Wednesday that negotiations were going nowhere, necessitating his hasty return to Washington to intervene while suspending his campaign.

"It was somewhat stunning" to receive McCain's phone call with that message, said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. Talks were proceeding fine without him, Reid said.

Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the chief House Democrat on the bill, said, "all of a sudden, now that we are on the verge of making a deal, John McCain airdrops himself to help us make the deal."

Even the House's Republican leader, John Boehner of Ohio, passed up a chance to praise McCain's leadership powers shortly before the two men met in the Capitol at midday Thursday. Asked by reporters if McCain could help win House Republican votes for the proposed package, Boehner shrugged and said, "Who knows?"

Other Republicans gave McCain more credit. "They got something done this morning only because McCain came back," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C. But DeMint later called the proposal "a trillion-dollar Band-Aid that does not contain a single item that will stimulate our economy."

President Bush's biggest worry is House Republicans, many of whom seemed unimpressed Thursday with McCain's heightened interest. Several said it was essential that both McCain and his Democratic opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, back the bailout plan together.

So McCain starts making up stories about the plan and negotiations about which he knows nothing and tries to sideline everyone.

Johnny-come-lately, shame, shame, shame!

 

[LowlyPion]

My theory is he pulled in a favor from John Boenher on the House Finance Committee to stall things long enough to give him some cover.

Obama isn't going to have to shoot at hapless John McCain over this, because it looks like he is getting incoming fire from lots of directions.

 

[LowlyPion]

Bailout talks in disarray
Democrats say they reached bipartisan agreement on set of principles, but House Republicans balk. White House meeting described as 'contentious.'

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/deal_reached/index.htm?postversion=2008092513

Looks like political sabotage in order to desperately seek office.

The country be damned? Getting McCain elected is more important?

Maybe throw all the Republican bums out.

 

[Astronuc]

Dubious Claims in Obama’s Ads Against McCain, Despite Vow of Truth
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26ads.html

ROANOKE, Va. — Two weeks ago, Senator Barack Obama’s presidential campaign gleefully publicized a spate of news reports about misleading and untruthful statements in the advertisements of his rival, Senator John McCain. Asked by a voter in New Hampshire if he would respond in kind, Mr. Obama said, “I just have a different philosophy, I’m going to respond with the truth,” adding, “I’m not going to start making up lies about John McCain.”

Yet as Mr. McCain’s misleading advertisements became fodder on shows like “The View” and “Saturday Night Live,” Mr. Obama began his own run of advertisements on radio and television that have matched the dubious nature of Mr. McCain’s more questionable spots.

A radio advertisement running in Wisconsin and other contested states misleadingly reports that Mr. McCain “has stood in the way of” federal financing for stem cell research; Mr. McCain did once oppose such federally supported research but broke with President Bush to consistently support it starting in 2001 (his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska, does not support it).

. . . .

Obama needs to put a stop to this! :grumpy:

 

[Art]

Dubious Claims in Obama’s Ads Against McCain, Despite Vow of Truth
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26ads.html
Obama needs to put a stop to this! :grumpy:

It's possibly quite a clever ploy. Maybe it's intended to put McCain on the spot. If he denounces the ad as a lie it draws the attention of the right wing of his party to the fact he supports stem cell research and so alienates a key section of his electorate?

 

[LowlyPion]

This just in.

McCain blinked.

He will be at the debate this evening.

 

[Astronuc]

It's possibly quite a clever ploy. Maybe it's intended to put McCain on the spot. If he denounces the ad as a lie it draws the attention of the right wing of his party to the fact he supports stem cell research and so alienates a key section of his electorate?

Obama and McCain can call each other out on the issues without making up stuff. It's just not right to misrepresent the other guy. I don't care for negative campaigning or political rhetoric from either side.

 

[Art]

Obama and McCain can call each other out on the issues without making up stuff. It's just not right to misrepresent the other guy. I don't care for negative campaigning or political rhetoric from either side.

I agree with you, I don't care for it either. I was more making the point that there might be another dimension to this ad rather than it just being a blatant lie.

 

[LowlyPion]

Obama and McCain can call each other out on the issues without making up stuff. It's just not right to misrepresent the other guy. I don't care for negative campaigning or political rhetoric from either side.

Early on this was the tone of the campaign. Both McCain and Obama sounded very high minded. I agree that it is disappointing that the mud buckets have been broken out. But sadly this is the recourse of whoever is behind to go negative.

While I am sure that both would have gone negative at the margins at some point, I feel like the beginning of the shift from high minded issues started from the selection of the policy lightweight Palin.

 

[turbo]

According to the McCain campaign, McCain has already won the debate "hands down". That's one crackerjack organization he's running.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html

 

[Art]

Given their ability to foretell the future perhaps comments emanating from McCain's campaign should be posted in the Nostradamus thread in GD Given how McCain talks in riddles he would fit in well there.

 

[turbo]

Given their ability to foretell the future perhaps comments emanating from McCain's campaign should be posted in the Nostradamus thread in GD Given how McCain talks in riddles he would fit in well there.

:rofl:

 

[Defennder]

According to the McCain campaign, McCain has already won the debate "hands down". That's one crackerjack organization he's running.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html

I'll bet a week from now, we'll see a "McCain Wins Election" ad.

 

[LowlyPion]

I'll bet a week from now, we'll see a "McCain Wins Election" ad.

Save it. Could be a collector's item like the "Dewey Beats Truman" headlines in the papers in 1948.

 

[Astronuc]

Ruben Navarrette - Commentary: McCain has his priorities straight
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/navarrette.obama.mccain/index.html

Earlier this week, McCain abruptly suspended his campaign and requested that the debate be postponed until Congress finishes the heavy lifting of approving a bailout. That put Obama and McCain in a classic Mexican standoff with each trying to look presidential, while attempting to map out a course that would benefit him politically.
. . .
After all the doom and gloom, pundits were then somehow surprised when McCain decided to temporarily suspend his presidential campaign and return to his day job in Congress, where he tried to work out a bailout deal with his colleagues. Well at least most of his colleagues.

Despite having decried the economic crisis in near-apocalyptic terms in an attempt to lay blame on President Bush and, by association, McCain, the junior senator from Illinois didn't feel the urgency to show up for work and try to do what he could to address it. Obama certainly has standing and more than his share of influence. This is, after all, the de-facto leader of the Democratic Party.
. . . .

OK - that's one version of what happened. But, . . .

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/26/letterman.mccain.rant.ap/index.html

The late-night CBS comedian was upset Wednesday when McCain canceled an appearance to deal with the economic crisis.

After backing out of the Letterman show, McCain sat for an interview with Katie Couric, then didn't leave New York until Thursday, further angering Letterman.

So, apparently what did happen is that McCain delayed his return to Washington (so he didn't rush back), and when he got there, he disrupted the discussion (he huddled with GOP House members), and apparently did not try to work out anything with most of his colleagues, unless colleagues refers only to GOP members who oppose the bailout.

Meanwhile Obama reamins in touch with Congressional leaders.

Assuming an agreement was reached, then McCain and Obama can return Saturday to Washington. No need to pretend on McCain's part.

 

[Evo]

Here's Letterman's reaction, hillarious.

But it was prelude to the wrath of Letterman after McCain canceled an appearance on his show -- especially when Letterman found out that McCain was still doing an interview with Couric at CBS News.

“I’m more than a little disappointed by his behavior,” Letterman said of McCain's decision to cancel his appearance on the show and suspend his campaign until Congress passes a bailout plan.

“We’re suspending the campaign -- suspending it because there’s an economic crisis, or because the poll numbers are sliding?”

“You don’t suspend your campaign -- something about this stinks,” Letterman continued, using a phrase he would repeat over and over throughout the show. “Do you suspend your campaign? No, because that makes me think maybe there will be other things down the road, like if he’s in the White House, he might just suspend being president. I mean, we've got a guy like that now!”

Adding insult to injury, Letterman brought on MSNBC host and left-wing attack dog Keith Olbermann as the substitute guest for McCain.

During his chat with Olbermann, Letterman used the in-house CBS cameras and monitors to show McCain being readied for his interview with Couric on the set of the CBS Evening News.

“He doesn’t seem to be racing to the airport, does he?” Letterman said referring to McCain's call earlier in the day when he told Letterman he was canceling because "the economy is cratering" and he has to rush back to Washington to work on a Wall Street bailout plan.

“Hey John, I got a question! You need a ride to the airport?” Letterman yelled at the TV monitor as the in-house camera showed McCain talking to Couric.

The audience howled in delight at the merciless edge of Letterman's anti-McCain barbs. The comedian also repeatedly asked why McCain didn't send Palin in his place -- suggesting the GOP handlers were afraid that she couldn't handle it.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/zontv/2008/09/couric_letterman_too_much_for.html

 

[LowlyPion]

...where he tried to work out a bailout deal with his colleagues.

I just don't see where that has happened at all. He's not been a part of any of the negotiations. He didn't even speak out in the meeting with the President by taking any position at all, even though he clearly knew his buddy Boehner was going to pee on the parade. I don't think he has yet to articulate a position other than what Obama has crafted.

And why did he know? Because he had apparently argued at the Republican Caucus that he needed a crisis if his candidacy was going to be successful and if they didn't want to have to be a smaller minority in the Congress they had to monkey wrench it.

Whatever happened it was so guileless that no one outside of Fox News has been fooled as to who had forced the disruption, and that rather than mediating, McCain's role has been that of petulant agitator desperate to save a sagging campaign.

 

[LowlyPion]

Here's Letterman's reaction, hillarious.

Getting the Late Night audiences against you is a swift current to swim against. That's middle America independents.

 

[turbo]

McCain's got another audience against him from the get-go.

One side effect of McCain's debate gambit is, I'm told, that everyone at Ole Miss now hates him. It will make for a very hostile audience tonight among those students and faculty attending. He might have to apologize for creating the uncertainty or make some explanation up front, which is never ideal.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZGMyMzdkMDk3NzNmM2EzMmRmNDAzYTZhMjlhM2Y4MzI=

Not an ideal situation for McCain, who will need some positive audience reaction for his spinners to use to proclaim his stunning victory in the debate.

 

[Astronuc]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_debate

McCain had also said he would suspend all campaign activities, but in reality the campaign just shifted to Washington while the work of trying to win the election went on.

McCain had taken a gamble with the move, trying to appear above politics and as a leader on an issue that had overshadowed the presidential campaign and given him trouble. But Democratic rival Barack Obama had not bowed to McCain's challenge, and instead questioned why the Republican nominee couldn't handle two things at once — the debate and involvement in the bailout negotiations.

An Associated Press-Knowledge Networks poll out Friday just before McCain's announcement showed the public overwhelmingly wanted the candidates to debate, 60 percent to 22 percent, with the rest undecided.

By Friday morning, it appeared McCain was looking for a face-saving way to get to the debate even though a deal had not been reached. He met with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., and House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, before heading to his campaign headquarters and issuing a statement that blamed others in Washington for the failure to reach an agreement.

It seemed they had an agreement until McCain showed up. Is this an example of McCain snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

A president has to be able to handle two or more things at once. Apparently, McCain can't handle that. Will McCain call time outs during his presidency if he is elected?

 

[Astronuc]

Who's to Blame for the Bailout Deal's Stumble?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/whostoblameforthebailoutdealsstumble

John McCain arrived on Capitol Hill early Thursday afternoon just as a bipartisan group of senators and representatives were announcing they had reached an agreement on the broad outlines of a bill to bail out Wall Street. For a moment, as the press conference broke up, members of the media traveling with McCain mingled with reporters covering the Hill. "Wait, there's a deal?" one surprised McCain reporter asked his congressional colleague.

That one question summed up the confused state of a high-stakes day in the nation's capital that only got more confusing as the hours passed. For a few hours, it looked as if McCain, who came to Washington with the stated goal of helping to hammer out a final deal, had shown up just minutes too late to speed along the once-stalled negotiations. Then McCain, his Democratic rival Barack Obama and congressional leaders from both parties went to the White House for what some billed as a photo-op, a public showing of bipartisan support for a piece of legislation that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and the President himself have called absolutely vital to preventing economic collapse. Reporters waited and waited on the rainy White House driveway expecting to hear from the two candidates, only to be informed by Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, that there was no deal.

With the fate of the bailout bill in peril, it's not clear whether the presence of the presidential candidates is doing more damage than good. Members of both parties emerged from that meeting accusing each other of playing politics with the crucial legislation. Both sides to some degree are right. Less than 40 days from the presidential election, this crisis has been anything but the shining moment where candidates transcend politics and come together for the good of the country - as McCain suggested it should be when he suspended his campaign and asked to postpone Friday's debate until a deal could be worked out.
. . . .
So what caused the breakdown of a $700 billion rescue package that at one point seemed to have been amended to everyone's liking - with limits on executive compensation, more protections for taxpayers and homeowners, and additional oversight of the buying and selling of Wall Street's toxic mortgage-backed securities? . . . .

Deal or No Deal?

 

[Evo]

I guess it will be me, the cat, and dog watching the debate tonight. They never seem to offer much in the way of opinions, unfortunately.

 

[LowlyPion]

I wouldn't mind at all if Obama called McCain reckless in his efforts to lift his sagging campaign. While I'm sure McCain will retreat at warp speed to saying that his action was solely motivated by his love for his country, this has been such a totally self serving political move as to be pretty obvious to anyone not watching Fox News. There they apparently think even his b.o. is perfume.

 

[turbo]

I guess it will be me, the cat, and dog watching the debate tonight. They never seem to offer much in the way of opinions, unfortunately.

They'll probably give you opinions as valuable as all the talking heads who will be falling over themselves to spin the debate for their candidate.

 

[NateTG]

"It seemed they had an agreement until McCain showed up. Is this an example of McCain snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?"

Honestly, McCain's campaign is looking pretty desperate. As such, a gambit like this isn't really that inappropriate. I think this will be remembered as the week that he lost the election though.

 

[Art]

What time is the debate on at? And what stations are showing it?

 

[LowlyPion]

What time is the debate on at? And what stations are showing it?

9:00 PM EST and more stations than you can shake a stick at.

 

[Art]

9:00 PM EST and more stations than you can shake a stick at.

Thanks LowlyPion. I'm in Ireland so I only get a few US stations such as Fox and CNN but if it's on several no doubt one of them will have it if I'm still awake at 2 a.m. that is.