What would probably be the most impactful steps to stop seal bashing?

[Jurrasic]

Ideas?

So far, I have thought of making a club at my school to create awareness and to encourage people to take some kind of action to stop it?

 

[Sorry!]

I'm not sure if this is the area to discuss this but I never even felt that 'stopping seal bashing' was all that important.

Firstly: The seal hunt is MORE than likely sustainable... even if it isn't however numbers of seals have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY in the last 30 years.

Secondly: It's someones way of making income for their family etc. Seals are not endangered (far from) so why the big stink? Maybe if they were hunting tigers something to that effect but their not.

Thirdly: I actually think that a bigger stink is made about the seal hunt than is about illegal hunts occurring in various parts of the world... look at the dolphin trade in Japan. I think this is due to the fact that there is a lot of money to be made by animal rights groups over the cute seals.

Maybe one could argue that the killing methods are inhumane... I'm pretty sure that the Canadian Vetrenarian Association did a study and found that the killings caused minimal suffering to the animal. Hmph.

 

[Mark24]

I think it's a great idea. You could name the club: "Club Seals." Or perhaps, "Club Baby Seals" would be even more appropriate. That's bound to raise awareness.

 

[DaveC426913]

Bumper stickers to promote awareness:

 

[DaveC426913]

Seriously though.

Maybe one could argue that the killing methods are inhumane...

We should verify that this is what the OP is asking about - whether he is objecting to seal hunting or just seal clubbing.

 

[Jurrasic]

I'm not sure if this is the area to discuss this but I never even felt that 'stopping seal bashing' was all that important.

Firstly: The seal hunt is MORE than likely sustainable... even if it isn't however numbers of seals have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY in the last 30 years.

Secondly: It's someones way of making income for their family etc. Seals are not endangered (far from) so why the big stink? Maybe if they were hunting tigers something to that effect but their not.

Thirdly: I actually think that a bigger stink is made about the seal hunt than is about illegal hunts occurring in various parts of the world... look at the dolphin trade in Japan. I think this is due to the fact that there is a lot of money to be made by animal rights groups over the cute seals.

Maybe one could argue that the killing methods are inhumane... I'm pretty sure that the Canadian Vetrenarian Association did a study and found that the killings caused minimal suffering to the animal. Hmph.

OK No, the thread is NOT to discuss whether or not it is important to stop seal bashing but to discuss impactful ways to stop the seal bashing , it would after all take some really creative and good ideas to accomplish this most likely. Your post is not on the correct thread, Have you tried starting your own thread asking others whether or not it is important because , as said, this thread is not about what you are off in a corner discussing amongst yourself, totally different topic.

 

[Jurrasic]

Seriously though.


We should verify that this is what the OP is asking about - whether he is objecting to seal hunting or just seal clubbing.

The seal bashing is beyond sad, detail by detail becomes more sad, the hunting is bad also but not as unnecessary and painful as 'seal bashing' which is a systematic for profit thing , hunting is some what part of the eco system but sad also, seal bashing is just horrid though.

 

[Jurrasic]

Bumper stickers to promote awareness:

No no no, that doesn't look pro seal, in fact it looks anti seal :( Is it anti seal or are you sticking up for the seals. shoot.

 

[Jurrasic]

I think it's a great idea. You could name the club: "Club Seals." Or perhaps, "Club Baby Seals" would be even more appropriate. That's bound to raise awareness.

Need more ideas , many many more ideas , the more the better :)

 

[Jurrasic]

I'm not sure if this is the area to discuss this but I never even felt that 'stopping seal bashing' was all that important.

Firstly: The seal hunt is MORE than likely sustainable... even if it isn't however numbers of seals have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY in the last 30 years.

Secondly: It's someones way of making income for their family etc. Seals are not endangered (far from) so why the big stink? Maybe if they were hunting tigers something to that effect but their not.

Thirdly: I actually think that a bigger stink is made about the seal hunt than is about illegal hunts occurring in various parts of the world... look at the dolphin trade in Japan. I think this is due to the fact that there is a lot of money to be made by animal rights groups over the cute seals.

Maybe one could argue that the killing methods are inhumane... I'm pretty sure that the Canadian Vetrenarian Association did a study and found that the killings caused minimal suffering to the animal. Hmph.

What if there was a human bashing and some seal was on a forum saying " I really don't think stopping human bashing is all that important." What if the human being skinned alive and bashed was YOU. Very curious what your answer might be, tell me. But you'll come up with some thing totally annoying as an answerand totally antagonistic and anti seal or apathetic still, correct?

 

[DaveC426913]

OK No, the thread is NOT to discuss whether or not it is important to stop seal bashing but to discuss impactful ways to stop the seal bashing

Shouldn;t you first determine if it should be stopped? That is by no means a foregone conclusion.

I think it's a great idea. You could name the club: "Club Seals." Or perhaps, "Club Baby Seals" would be even more appropriate. That's bound to raise awareness.

Need more ideas , many many more ideas , the more the better :)

You should be aware that he is teasing you. Naming your club "Club Baby Seals" would be alarmingly counterproductive.

Bumper stickers to promote awareness:

No no no, that doesn't look pro seal, in fact it looks anti seal :( Is it anti seal or are you sticking up for the seals. shoot.

You do realize that I am teasing you too.

What if there was a human bashing and some seal was on a forum saying " I really don't think stopping human bashing is all that important." What if the human being skinned alive and bashed was YOU. Very curious what your answer might be, tell me.

I guess you are a strict vegetarian then? If not, you are killing to sustain yourself.

 

[joelupchurch]

OK No, the thread is NOT to discuss whether or not it is important to stop seal bashing but to discuss impactful ways to stop the seal bashing , it would after all take some really creative and good ideas to accomplish this most likely. Your post is not on the correct thread, Have you tried starting your own thread asking others whether or not it is important because , as said, this thread is not about what you are off in a corner discussing amongst yourself, totally different topic.

This is a Science forum. If you want to discuss a Political campaign to protect seals, then it probably should be done somewhere else.

 

[DaveC426913]

This is a Science forum. If you want to discuss a Political campaign to protect seals, then it probably should be done somewhere else.

Oh I don't know about that. Maybe it belongs in a different sub-forum, but the OP has come here for ideas. We support that.

Though he may not get quite the responses he wants.

 

[berkeman]

This is a Science forum. If you want to discuss a Political campaign to protect seals, then it probably should be done somewhere else.

FYI, the Mentors are discussing a move to P&WA or GD or leaving it here. It's late, though, so there probably won't be a consensus until morning.

 

[Evo]

I am completely against the killing of animals for their fur, which is the primary reason the seals are killed. The seal hunt is sanctioned by the Canadian government. Although the clubbing of seals under 12-14 days of age is now illegal, any baby seal over that age can be clubbed to death.

This is a pro-seal clubbing article, it states the Canadian government's reasons for endorsing the hunts as an economic stimulous.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/05/f-seal-hunt.html

We have already caused the extinction of one seal species from over hunting. Even though there currently are large numbers of seals, natural disasters can quickly decimate a species

Caribbean Monk Seal Gone Extinct From Human Causes, NOAA Confirms

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080608074828.htm

 

[Sorry!]

I think that people should instead of condemning Canada or the hunters do more research into the hunt. Do more research into the Native Newfoundlanders, the Newfondlanders and the Inuit peoples. Do research into the cod fishing industry (it's ironic how overfishing destroyed that and the Canadian government shut that down yet other countries are still fishing for cod) yet the flak comes back at the Canadians when they are doing a more than likely sustainable hunt.

It's easy for you to sit here and cry about killing the 'poor cute little seal' from your more than likely nice home and great job. Are you going to lend these people $10000 when the seal hunt is done every year? Especially the Inuit, they'll need it the most. Which is OUR fault by the way too, if you care to look it up.

 

[Evo]

I think that people should instead of condemning Canada or the hunters do more research into the hunt. Do more research into the Native Newfoundlanders, the Newfondlanders and the Inuit peoples. Do research into the cod fishing industry (it's ironic how overfishing destroyed that and the Canadian government shut that down yet other countries are still fishing for cod) yet the flak comes back at the Canadians when they are doing a more than likely sustainable hunt.

It's easy for you to sit here and cry about killing the 'poor cute little seal' from your more than likely nice home and great job. Are you going to lend these people $10000 when the seal hunt is done every year? Especially the Inuit, they'll need it the most. Which is OUR fault by the way too, if you care to look it up.

A lot of that is covered in the article I posted. I chose it over articles by groups that oppose the hunts because, even though the the CBC article presents the pro-clubbing viewpoint, it seems to me to be a fair representation of the situation. I abhore alarmism. It's a sad state of affairs that killing primarily for fur has to be considered necessary for income. There is no easy solution.

 

[mgb_phys]

It's a sad state of affairs that killing primarily for fur has to be considered necessary for income.

Probably better than drilling for oil being necessary for income.
The trouble is that seals are cute - chickens, cod and king crab aren't

The only way to stop it, other than fitting the seals with laser beams is to remove the demand.
There isn't much demand for fur coats from anybody under 50 in the US/Europe so the only new market is likely to be China. If you stop fur seal they will just get Panda coats instead.

Europe tried trade sanctions, but since the only Canadian export to europe is mapple syrup this isn't really biting. The US could boycott Canadian oil ?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

How about a bumper sticker that says I (heart symbol) baby seals, don't (club symbol) them.

 

[Newai]

Pricey, but maybe raise funds and buy the land the seals live? Animal-rights interests could spend their donations in better areas, then.

 

[drankin]

Instead of clubbing them they could use a pneumatic punch. I believe they use them in slaughter houses. Like on that movie, "No Country for Old Men". They wouldn't feel a thing.

 

[mgb_phys]

How about a bumper sticker that says I (heart symbol) baby seals, don't (club symbol) them.

Below the arctic circle so what? It would be lost among the stop-logging, stop-drilling, stop-vanoc, stop-starbucks, etc bumber stickers.
Above the arctic circle, about as useful as driving around Houston with a stop drilling in Alaska bumber sticker.

 

[Alfi]

I am completely against the killing of animals for their fur, ...

UNLESS ? ...

Eat what you kill, Use what you kill.
I am against waist and non-sustainable harvest.
As in, I am against fashion over food.

 

[drankin]

I am completely against the killing of animals for their fur, ...

UNLESS ? ...

Eat what you kill, Use what you kill.
I am against waist and non-sustainable harvest.
As in, I am against fashion over food.

You are against hunting? The Dept of Fish & Game allows controls hunting in order to thin out the population of different species. They banned hunting in the UK and now they have a roadkill problem, for example. I believe it's the deer or similar game that is causing automobile crashes all over countryside.

Coyotes, shall we let them breed like bunnies and run the streets?

Controlled killing of animals is necessary otherwise you end up causing dangerous circumstances to where humans end up getting killed.

 

[dotman]

Clubbing an animal to death is inhumane and should be stopped. Clubbing a juevenile animal is even worse.

Would you take your dog into be 'put to sleep', if you knew that the method used was clubbing?

They club the animals because the animals aren't able to defend themselves. It is inhumane. Hunting is one thing. Brutally killing an animal, when there are more humane options, is not.

This brutal practice should be stopped.

As for what you can do, raising money for organizations fighting this practice is the most effective use of your time, probably. 'Raising awareness' does nothing. Money does.

 

[Jurrasic]

Shouldn;t you first determine if it should be stopped? That is by no means a foregone conclusion.
You should be aware that he is teasing you. Naming your club "Club Baby Seals" would be alarmingly counterproductive.You do realize that I am teasing you too.

I guess you are a strict vegetarian then? If not, you are killing to sustain yourself.

vegetarian yes, there is no such thing as a strict vegetarian, either your either vegetarian or your not.

 

[Mark24]

You are against hunting? The Dept of Fish & Game allows controls hunting in order to thin out the population of different species. They banned hunting in the UK and now they have a roadkill problem, for example. I believe it's the deer or similar game that is causing automobile crashes all over countryside.

Spot on. Natural predators of animals like deer once helped to keep populations in check, but they have disappeared. If deer, for example, are not thinned out, there will be consequences. Automobile accidents would skyrocket like you mentioned. The american deer tick, responsible for infecting humans with a number of illnesses such as Lyme disease, largely depends on the deer population for reproduction as well since deer are the primary hosts of the ticks.

 

[DaveC426913]

vegetarian yes, there is no such thing as a strict vegetarian, either your either vegetarian or your not.

There are many flavours of vegetarian. (for example, some avoid any animal products, including milk and eggs).

 

[mgb_phys]

It's easy for you to sit here and cry about killing the 'poor cute little seal' from your more than likely nice home and great job. Are you going to lend these people $10000 when the seal hunt is done every year?

We already do, with no market for fur coats and the EU ban on imports the Canadian government has to subsidize the hunt most years. Add in the damage to other Canadian exports from the publicity and other bans and I'm already paying people money to hunt.

 

[Sorry!]

We already do, with no market for fur coats and the EU ban on imports the Canadian government has to subsidize the hunt most years. Add in the damage to other Canadian exports from the publicity and other bans and I'm already paying people money to hunt.

So this has been going on for 'most years'... interesting I thought the EU decided to ban SEAL imports just last September. Since the hunt takes place pretty much just for the month of April we haven't even gone through a period where the hunt has taken place with the EU ban on seal imports.

The ban on seal imports doesn't include native imports. As well EU is a pretty small market for the imports, the problem with this ban however is that it will still drive prices down for the imports.

EDIT: Oh yeah, just one other thing on the bans, the regulations don't go into effect until August, and they are still being negotiated. If you some how think that because of all this you are somehow paying these people to live you are very mistaken. Go up to Nunavut and tell me how their living conditions are, go up there after the ban and tell me if their the same because now you're still 'paying them to hunt'.

 

[DaveC426913]

While I understand your sentiment, I think your stance is more emotional than rational. The arguments you put forth are weak.

One premise that is essential for we as humans to acknowledge: we can no longer separate ourselves from "nature". We have no choice but to steward our planet and all its natural resources. Any other stance is naive and tantamount to putting ones head in the sand.

Clubbing an animal to death is inhumane and should be stopped. Clubbing a juevenile animal is even worse.

Why is clubbing a juvenile any worse?

Would you take your dog into be 'put to sleep', if you knew that the method used was clubbing?

Faulty analogy. We adopt dogs for their companionship and we don't choose to put them to sleep unelss they are suffering. We hunt seals. The premise of hunting is that the critters are going to die.

They club the animals because the animals aren't able to defend themselves. It is inhumane. Hunting is one thing.

By hunting I assume you mean with rifles? Are animals better able to defend themselves against rifles at a hundred yards than a club at point-blank?

'Raising awareness' does nothing. Money does.

Have you not thought this through? You do not see a correlation between raising awareness and raising money?

I guess about a hundred thousand special interest initiatives and charities have it totally wrong...

 

[mgb_phys]

Go up to Nunavut and tell me how their living conditions are, go up there after the ban and tell me if their the same because now you're still 'paying them to hunt'.

Most of the hunting isn't by inuit it's by newfies.
I couldn't care less about the seals, I do care about paying people to hunt seals and then destroying the crop to keep prices up or because there isn't a market - just so keep a few local MPs on side to prop up the government.
I care even more if the EU uses this as an excuse to block/tariff Canadian software/aerospace.

All countries end up doing this - the Eu subsidizes tobacco with one hand and pays for anti smoking campaigns with the other. But subsidizing something that screws your countries image is just as crazy.

 

[dotman]

We have no choice but to steward our planet and all its natural resources. Any other stance is naive and tantamount to putting ones head in the sand.

I'm sure this is exactly how seal-clubbers see themselves; as stewards of nature. And I'm certain they're doing it to take care of our natural resources. Not for, oh, I don't know... the money.

Why is clubbing a juvenile any worse?

Cut me a break. Go ask any five year old.

Faulty analogy. We adopt dogs for their companionship and we don't choose to put them to sleep unelss they are suffering.

It wasn't an analogy. It was a question. Would you take your dog into be put to sleep, if you knew the method used was clubbing? Go ahead and answer that question, and then feel free to try and argue its validity or not. But answer it first.

By hunting I assume you mean with rifles? Are animals better able to defend themselves against rifles at a hundred yards than a club at point-blank?

Clubbing is brutal.

Have you not thought this through? You do not see a correlation between raising awareness and raising money?

I don't pay my bills with awareness. Do you? Come on, at this point, its almost like you're going out of your way to argue with me here.

Like you said, there are a million causes vying for attention. Awareness is great. Money is better.

 

[drankin]

Clubbing is brutal.

Maybe you believe it would be more humane to gather them up and take them to a gas chamber? Clubbing would be more humane than slitting their throats, I would think. Like I was saying, a pneumatic punch in the forehead would be quick, certain, and painless.

Do you have a better idea on how to efficiently kill them?

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm sure this is exactly how seal-clubbers see themselves; as stewards of nature. And I'm certain they're doing it to take care of our natural resources. Not for, oh, I don't know... the money.

Belittle it at your peril. It has nothing to do with hunters; we as a civilization must realize that Earth's ecosystems will live or die because of our actions or inactions, it is no longer tenable to pretend we can just leave nature alone.

Cut me a break. Go ask any five year old.

So humour me. If we saw things the same way, we wouldn't be having this discussion would we? Pretending it's obvious is a cop-out. Answer the question.

I once again contend that your argument is emotional, which is why you're resorting to the "it's so obvious" defense. If you have a rational response, you are obliged to state it.

It wasn't an analogy. It was a question. Would you take your dog into be put to sleep, if you knew the method used was clubbing? Go ahead and answer that question, and then feel free to try and argue its validity or not. But answer it first.

OK, we'll do it the long way for you.

No I wouldn't. So what? Relevance?

Clubbing is brutal.

You specifically said "They club the animals because the animals aren't able to defend themselves." You then in the same breath claimed that hunting (by which, again, I assume you mean with guns) was a different matter.

So I ask again: How can animals better defend themselves from guns?

I don't pay my bills with awareness. Do you? Come on, at this point, its almost like you're going out of your way to argue with me here.

Are you completely missing it? Money does not come until the public at large is aware of the issue.

I can contribute $100 of my own, and at the end I'll have $100 for my cause. Or I can spend $100 on increasing awareness of the issue, reach 10,000 people, of which 1% might sympathize and contribute their own $100. I now have $10,000 for my cause.

This is as basic as 2+2=4; it astonishes and alarms me that you seem to be missing this.