What's a fast way to find the normal and binormal vectors?

In summary, the student attempted to solve the homework statement but did not have enough time to finish the quiz. He found a time-consuming way to calculate the normal and tangent components of acceleration, and then had to do the same for the y- and z-components. Finally, he calculated the magnitude of the acceleration.
  • #1
Eclair_de_XII
1,083
91

Homework Statement


##r(t)=(t^2)i+(1+\frac{1}{3}t^3)j+(t-\frac{1}{3}t^3)k##
Find the tangential, normal, and binormal vectors for this TNB frame.

Homework Equations


##T(t)=\frac{v(t)}{|v(t)|}##
##N(t)=\frac{T`(t)}{|T`(t)|}##
##B(t)=T(t)×N(t)##

The Attempt at a Solution


The problem isn't that I don't know how to solve this, it's just that I don't know how to solve this fast enough. I had about forty minutes to figure out this problem, to calculate the normal and tangent components of acceleration, and to find the velocity and acceleration of an unrelated polar equation. In the end, I didn't have enough time to finish all of the quiz. Here's what I did...

##v(t)=(2t)i+(t^2)j+(1-t^2)k##
##|v(t)|=\sqrt{4t^2+t^4+1-2t^2+t^4}=\sqrt{2t^4+2t^2+1}##
##T(t)=\frac{2t}{\sqrt{2t^4+2t^2+1}}i+\frac{t^2}{\sqrt{2t^4+2t^2+1}}j+\frac{(1-t^2)}{\sqrt{2t^4+2t^2+1}}k##

And here's the time-consuming part that took up much of the allotted time.

##T_x`(t)=\frac{2(\sqrt{2t^4+2t^2+1})-2t(\frac{1}{2})(8t^3+4t)(2t^4+2t^2+1)^{-\frac{1}{2}}}{2t^4+2t^2+1}##
##T_x`(t)=\frac{4t^4+4t^2+2-8t^4-4t^2}{(2t^4+2t^2+1)^{\frac{3}{2}}}=\frac{2-4t^4}{(2t^4+2t^2+1)^{\frac{3}{2}}}##

Then I had to do this for the y- and z-components, then the magnitude, and it just drained away so much time. I need a faster way to compute N(t), and in turn, B(t), in other words.
 
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  • #2
Eclair_de_XII said:
I need a faster way to compute N(t), and in turn, B(t), in other words.
I'm not aware of any faster way than the one you employed. These kinds of problems tend to be time-consuming, especially in calculating the N and B vectors.
 
  • #3
I see. Maybe I should e-mail the teacher about it, that it's too much to be giving in just one quiz. I just had a stroke of hindsight, by the way, for calculating the normal component of the acceleration. I could have used:

##a_N=\sqrt{|a|^2-|a_T|^2}=\sqrt{4+8t^2-2t^4-2t^2-1}=\sqrt{-2t^4+6t^2+3}##

I should have known this, but I suppose that losing points on this question will help me remember it better in the future. Thanks for your input, by the way.
 
Last edited:
  • #4
You could apply the non-arclength formulas. The advantage of this is that you don't need to differentiate a fraction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenet–Serret_formulas#Other_expressions_of_the_frame

For example:
[tex]\mathbf{r}(t) = (t^2, 1 + t^3/3, t - t^3/3)[/tex]
[tex]\mathbf{r}'(t) = (2t, t^2, 1 - t^2)[/tex]
[tex]\mathbf{r}''(t) = (2, 2t, -2t)[/tex]

So

[tex]\mathbf{r}'(t)\times \mathbf{r}''(t) = (-2t^3 - 2t(1-t^2), -(-4t^2 - 2(1-t^2)), 4t^2 - 2t^2) = (-2t, 2t^2 +2, 2t^2)[/tex]
So
[tex]\mathbf{B}(t) = \frac{(-2t, 2t^2 + 2, 2t^2)}{\|(-2t, 2t^2 + 2, 2t^2\|} = \frac{(-2t, 2t^2 + 2, 2t^2)}{\sqrt{8t^4 + 12t^2+4}}[/tex]
 
  • #5
Thank you for that link. I think I'll find those formulas useful next time I must calculate TNB or curvature.
 

What is a normal vector and a binormal vector?

A normal vector is a vector that is perpendicular to a surface at a given point. It represents the direction that is perpendicular to the surface and is used in many applications such as calculating the slope of a curve. A binormal vector is a vector that is perpendicular to both the normal vector and the tangent vector of a curve. It is often used in calculating the curvature of a curve.

Why is it important to find the normal and binormal vectors?

Knowing the normal and binormal vectors is important in many mathematical and scientific fields. They are used in calculating the curvature of a curve, finding the slope of a surface, and determining the orientation of an object in space. They also play a crucial role in understanding and solving problems in physics, engineering, and computer graphics.

What are some methods for finding the normal and binormal vectors?

There are several methods for finding the normal and binormal vectors, including using the cross product of the tangent vector and the second derivative of a curve, using the gradient of a function, and using the normal and tangent vectors of a surface. These methods can be applied in different scenarios and have varying degrees of complexity.

Are there any shortcuts or tricks for finding the normal and binormal vectors?

While there are no universal shortcuts or tricks for finding the normal and binormal vectors, some techniques may be more efficient in certain situations. For example, using the gradient of a function is often a quicker method for finding the normal vector of a surface, while using the cross product is typically used for finding the normal and binormal vectors of a curve.

Can the normal and binormal vectors change at different points on a curve or surface?

Yes, the normal and binormal vectors can change at different points on a curve or surface. This is because they are dependent on the local geometry of the curve or surface at a given point. As such, they may vary in direction or magnitude at different points, and their values may also change as the curve or surface is altered or transformed.

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