Why the temperature of a moving jar of gas doesn't increase

In summary, the conversation discusses the question of why the temperature of a moving jar of gas does not increase even though the average velocity of the molecules is increasing. It is explained that this is due to the reference frame in which the average velocity is zero, also known as the center of mass frame. The concept of temperature as the average translational kinetic energy of molecules is also discussed. The conversation also touches on the issue of how temperature is measured and the importance of having a consistent understanding of temperature among observers.
  • #1
RubinLicht
132
8

Homework Statement


Why doesn't the temperature of a moving jar of gas increase?

Homework Equations


Average KE is proportional to temperature

The Attempt at a Solution


This is just an extension of a problem my friend sent me, and I'm stuck on why even though average velocity is increasing, the temperature does not increase.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
RubinLicht said:
I'm stuck on why even though average velocity is increasing, the temperature does not increase
Think about the reference frame that makes sense to use when talking about the random KE of the molecules of an object.

And realize that the macroscopic velocity of an object is always relative to something. Relative to your chair, you are at rest. Relative to a moving train, you might be moving at 70 mph. Relative to the sun... and so on.
 
  • #3
Doc Al said:
Think about the reference frame that makes sense to use when talking about the random KE of the molecules of an object.

And realize that the macroscopic velocity of an object is always relative to something. Relative to your chair, you are at rest. Relative to a moving train, you might be moving at 70 mph. Relative to the sun... and so on.
The frame in which the average velocity is zero, so the jar.
 
  • #4
RubinLicht said:
The frame in which the average velocity is zero?
Right. (Also called the center of mass frame.)
 
  • #5
Doc Al said:
Right. (Also called the center of mass frame.)
Ah thanks, makes much more sense than my friends explanation haha
 
  • #6
Doc Al said:
Think about the reference frame that makes sense to use when talking about the random KE of the molecules of an object.

And realize that the macroscopic velocity of an object is always relative to something. Relative to your chair, you are at rest. Relative to a moving train, you might be moving at 70 mph. Relative to the sun... and so on.
So shouldn't the question state, just to be clear, that the thermometer is moving with the jar?
 
  • #7
haruspex said:
So shouldn't the question state, just to be clear, that the thermometer is moving with the jar?
Good point. :biggrin:
 
  • #8
haruspex said:
So shouldn't the question state, just to be clear, that the thermometer is moving with the jar?
the question makes no reference to thermometers!
 
  • #9
lychette said:
the question makes no reference to thermometers!
Quite so, but how is the temperature to be measured/defined? My point is that it affects the answer.
If the gas is heteropolar, you would be able to measure its temperature externally by infrared radiation. This would show an elevated temperature if you stand in front of it but a lower one if measured from behind, because of the Doppler effect. Measuring all around and averaging, you would still see a slightly higher temperature because of the increased total energy (KE).
 
  • Like
Likes RubinLicht
  • #10
haruspex said:
Quite so, but how is the temperature to be measured/defined? My point is that it affects the answer.
If the gas is heteropolar, you would be able to measure its temperature externally by infrared radiation. This would show an elevated temperature if you stand in front of it but a lower one if measured from behind, because of the Doppler effect. Measuring all around and averaging, you would still see a slightly higher temperature because of the increased total energy (KE).

I am viewing temperature (of a gas) as the average translational KE of molecules which has nothing to do with how temperature is measured. It is a mathematical concept from kinetic theory. What thermometers 'measure' is a different matter.
 
  • #11
lychette said:
I am viewing temperature (of a gas) as the average translational KE of molecules which has nothing to do with how temperature is measured. It is a mathematical concept from kinetic theory. What thermometers 'measure' is a different matter.
The usual view is that temperature is a measure of the thermal energy. Bulk motion does not contribute to that.
The question setter clearly agrees with that. Your view makes the question wrong, and makes it hard for observers to agree on temperature.
 
  • #12
haruspex said:
The usual view is that temperature is a measure of the thermal energy. Bulk motion does not contribute to that.
The question setter clearly agrees with that. Your view makes the question wrong, and makes it hard for observers to agree on temperature.
thankyou for pointing out how wrong I have been.
 

1. Why doesn't the temperature of a moving jar of gas increase?

According to the kinetic theory of gases, the temperature of a gas is directly proportional to the average kinetic energy of its molecules. When a gas is in motion, its molecules are colliding and bouncing off the walls of the container, which increases the average kinetic energy. However, the overall temperature of the gas remains constant because the increased kinetic energy is balanced out by the work done by the gas as it expands against the walls of the container.

2. How does the motion of gas molecules affect temperature?

The motion of gas molecules contributes to the temperature of the gas through their kinetic energy. The more they move and collide, the higher their average kinetic energy and therefore the higher the temperature of the gas. However, when a gas is in motion, the work done by the gas as it expands against the walls of the container counteracts the increase in kinetic energy, resulting in a constant temperature.

3. Does the temperature of a gas change when it is compressed or expanded?

When a gas is compressed or expanded, the temperature does not change significantly. This is because the work done by the gas as it expands or contracts against the container walls is equal to the change in its internal energy, which maintains a constant temperature. However, if the compression or expansion is rapid, there may be a slight change in temperature due to the compression or expansion occurring faster than the heat can dissipate.

4. Why doesn't the temperature of a gas increase when its volume is decreased?

When the volume of a gas is decreased, the gas molecules have less space to move around and collide with each other, resulting in a decrease in their average kinetic energy. However, the work done by the gas as it contracts against the container walls balances out this decrease in kinetic energy, resulting in a constant temperature.

5. Can the temperature of a moving jar of gas ever increase?

The temperature of a moving jar of gas can only increase if there is an external heat source adding energy to the gas. In this case, the work done by the gas as it expands against the walls of the container may not be enough to counteract the increase in kinetic energy, resulting in a net increase in temperature. However, in a closed system without an external heat source, the temperature of the gas will remain constant due to the principles of thermodynamics.

Similar threads

  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
12
Views
865
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
792
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
11
Views
2K
Back
Top