Wikileaks creates diplomatic crisis

[nismaratwork]

Is this very quote in support of my position against political decisions to starve population for strategy purposes ? I can also contribute further by asking my wife to recount soviet horror stories
Maybe we will just get back to topic now ?

I'd call that a weapon: A weapon is a tool used to force others by threat of harm done to them and/or those they care for. I think starving people into a corral fits that bill.

 

[humanino]

What the...

"The government does acknowledge that their purpose [...]" refers to the leak, the acknowledgment is there. Did you read it ?

You can't just keep making nutsy points in the midst of vast internal contradictions in your 'logic', AND make **** up. I have a new respect for mheslp and russ's patience!

Well, you cannot expect to understand if you do not pay any attention or read the material we are talking about. Where did I miss respect to those individuals ? Is it just that it upsets you when people have a different opinion ? Have you heard of France latest talks with Israel (today) ?

 

[nismaratwork]

"The government does acknowledge that their purpose [...]" refers to the leak, the acknowledgment is there. Did you read it ?
Well, you cannot expect to understand if you do not pay any attention or read the material we are talking about. Where did I miss respect to those individuals ? Is it just that it upsets you when people have a different opinion ? Have you heard of France latest talks with Israel (today) ?

I disagree and point out logical contradictions you make... so I don't keep up with the news? Try something that isn't ad hominem, and maybe I'll bother to respond.

 

[humanino]

so I don't keep up with the news? Try something that isn't ad hominem, and maybe I'll bother to respond.

It has nothing to do with you.

In the sample that I have, the emphasis in coverages for the events relating to France FM's latest visit in Israel are very different in the US and outside the US. Here in the US, emphasis is being put on the "warm" welcome the palestinian people gave to France FM. Note that we give the same kind of show to our politicians in France as well whenever they utter something we do not like. This emphasis to me is (at best) biased journalism. This is only worth news "in passing". The main emphasis as it is properly put elsewhere is on the reason for the visit and the discussions taking place.

Anyway, to be honest the cultural gap is so wide that I think I should restrain from posting here. It would be mutually beneficial. Discussions I have here are just endless repetitions of misunderstandings. I doubt it can entirely be blamed on my english.

 

[nismaratwork]

And now...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/02/wikileaks.suspect/index.html?hpt=T2

We have a dead man walking, unless he can cut a deal.

edit:

Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. Army Wednesday notified Pfc. Bradley Manning, a prime suspect in the WikiLeaks case, that he now faces 22 more charges in connection with allegedly downloading secret information from computers in Iraq.

The most serious new charge alleges that he aided the enemy by making this information public. That charge is punishable by death. A news release from the Army said the prosecution team "has notified the defense that the prosecution will not recommend the death penalty," but technically it is up to the commander overseeing the case to make the final decision about the death penalty.

All told, Manning, a military intelligence analyst from Oklahoma, now faces a total of 34 charges in the case, including:

-- Wrongfully causing intelligence to be published on the internet

-- Theft of public records

-- Transmitting defense information

-- Transferring classified data onto his personal computer

-- Disclosing classified information concerning the national defense.

Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, would not comment on the new charges, but posted a statement on his blog Wednesday evening:

"Over the past few weeks, the defense has been preparing for the possibility of additional charges in this case."

OUCH... that boy is never going to see the light of day again.

 

[turbo]

Manning is under severe restraints, including intrusive actions to prevent him from having normal sleep cycles. He can be woken by guards every 5 minutes or so under the pretext of checking if he is still in his cell. That type of confinement is abusive and would fit the definition of "torture" in the laws of all civilized countries.

 

[nismaratwork]

Manning is under severe restraints, including intrusive actions to prevent him from having normal sleep cycles. He can be woken by guards every 5 minutes or so under the pretext of checking if he is still in his cell. That type of confinement is abusive and would fit the definition of "torture" in the laws of all civilized countries.

Yep... I just love it...


If he has a coherent thought again in his life, I'll be impressed.

Now, torture would be my oft-mentioned white tubular room, uniformly lit, white noise, and not enough room to sit. THAT is torture, this is just a little friendly psychological trauma.

 

[Proton Soup]

i'm surprised no one has noticed the HBGary/Anonymous/Wikileaks debacle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary...erica.2C_Hunton_.26_Williams.2C_and_Anonymous

 

[nismaratwork]

i'm surprised no one has noticed the HBGary/Anonymous/Wikileaks debacle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBGary...erica.2C_Hunton_.26_Williams.2C_and_Anonymous

I'd say that deserves its own thread, or a place in "bundled... won"; I admit I noticed, but the Middle East has been... very absorbing.

I'd note: Wikileaks is not the issue in the case I'm rasing, it's the treason of an enlisted man. Besides, this won't be admissable in court... fruit from the poisoned tree. This is why most leaks go through some kind of watch-dog group.

 

[Proton Soup]

I'd say that deserves its own thread, or a place in "bundled... won"; I admit I noticed, but the Middle East has been... very absorbing.

I'd note: Wikileaks is not the issue in the case I'm rasing, it's the treason of an enlisted man. Besides, this won't be admissable in court... fruit from the poisoned tree. This is why most leaks go through some kind of watch-dog group.

this is not the bradley manning thread lynching thread, but it is interesting to read the IRC chat log of anonymous and HBGary reps. they demanded Penny fire Aaron (which she claimed an inability to do), and they've pretty much achieved that. http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2011/03/01/email-leak-ousts-hbgary-federal-ceo.html

they also demanded a contribution to manning's defense fund, which I'm not sure has/will materialize.

also, they have greg's email. and there's just so much stuff going on here with usg rootkits and such, that there's just no telling where it will end.

 

[Evo]

Manning is under severe restraints, including intrusive actions to prevent him from having normal sleep cycles. He can be woken by guards every 5 minutes or so under the pretext of checking if he is still in his cell. That type of confinement is abusive and would fit the definition of "torture" in the laws of all civilized countries.

Oh for god sakes, I was submittted to worse in a private hospital. The woman put into my room, was on morphine and an alarm would go off every few minutes when it stopped, the super loud alarm that would go off when that happened, not to mention the woman's screams.

 

[nismaratwork]

Oh for god sakes, I was submittted to worse in a private hospital. The woman put into my room, was on morphine and an alarm would go off every few minutes when it stopped, the super loud alarm that would go off when that happened, not to mention the woman's screams.

Holy...


...you go through too much.

@Proton: I admit, years ago... many, I used to be on IRC... it was the rise of this kind of madness that made me leave, and never look back. This... exploitation of people and entities... it has to stop.

 

[Proton Soup]

Holy...


...you go through too much.

@Proton: I admit, years ago... many, I used to be on IRC... it was the rise of this kind of madness that made me leave, and never look back. This... exploitation of people and entities... it has to stop.

yeah. HBGary federal seemed to be doing some people exploiting of its own, tho.

 

[nismaratwork]

yeah. HBGary federal seemed to be doing some people exploiting of its own, tho.

Hell yes, but this is not the way to fight sleaze... by becoming sleaze. I look to the CoTDC as a good model for true Hacktivism.

Still... HBGary Federal... not surprising, but still... for shame.

 

[mugaliens]

Oh for god sakes, I was submittted to worse in a private hospital. The woman put into my room, was on morphine and an alarm would go off every few minutes when it stopped, the super loud alarm that would go off when that happened, not to mention the woman's screams.

The third time they checked on my wife and my son in less than two hours after we'd all fallen asleep post-birth (after having been up to 29 hrs) I said, "We're fine. Get out." Shortly thereafter the doc walked in, and I told him something along the line of "Get out, and don't return unless you have the hospital administrator in tow so I can tell both of you to get out at the same time."

I absolutely detest the incessant intrusions hospitals visit upon their patients. Heartbeeps? Why in the world do I need to hear them instead of getting the sleep I need? No thanks - I know my heart's beating - Shut it off!

Alarms and all sorts of monitoring stuff should be reserved for the nurse's station. If doctors or nurses need all the noises while they're in the room, there should be a single on-off switch which allows them to activate it when they enter, and deactivate it when they leave.

 

[turbo]

Oh for god sakes, I was submittted to worse in a private hospital. The woman put into my room, was on morphine and an alarm would go off every few minutes when it stopped, the super loud alarm that would go off when that happened, not to mention the woman's screams.

Manning is kept naked all night every night and is required to respond verbally every 5 minutes to his jailers' inquiries. If he is not nuts by now, He should be soon.

 

[Evo]

Manning is kept naked all night every night and is required to respond verbally every 5 minutes to his jailers' inquiries. If he is not nuts by now, He should be soon.

He's under suicide watch for threatening to kill himself, it's for his safety, he's in a jail cell, not a hotel room. Many people prefer to sleep in the nude anyway. I also read that he's usually allowed to sleep in boxers. Do you have something to back up the "required to respond verbally every 5 minutes during the night"? I read the article and his attorney didn't mention that, I doubt that is true. Not to mention he's allowed two blankets at night.

 

[mugaliens]

Wikileaks is not the issue in the case I'm rasing, it's the treason of an enlisted man.

Agreed. If they can legitimately (NO scapegoats) pin the leaks on someone or some people who was/were entrusted with those secrets, and swore to maintaining their secrecy, then by all means they should. When you're read into classified material, there is a special trust established beforehand, the violation of which endangers the entire system, and the consequences of violations which are extremely well explained beforehand.

I know some people believe there should never be any secrets at all. Having had an abundance of access to various secrets over the years, I know why they're secrets. It's not because the average U.S. citizen couldn't handle it, as many have, through countless military, government, and contracting jobs. Rather, it's because there are a few people who would misuse the information, either disseminating it to those who've not been cleared for access, or using it for more sinister means.

When someone has gone through the background investigations, has signed the non-disclosure agreements, and considering the sensitive and potentially damaging nature of the information involved, if they then choose to misdirect that information to those not cleared for access, then yes, they should be punished, and severely.

When they choose to upload it for the entire world to see in violation of all agreements and laws, then they should be charged with treason. As I understand it, the U.S. Justice Department is being very lenient by merely asking for a life sentence.

 

[nismaratwork]

Agreed. If they can legitimately (NO scapegoats) pin the leaks on someone or some people who was/were entrusted with those secrets, and swore to maintaining their secrecy, then by all means they should. When you're read into classified material, there is a special trust established beforehand, the violation of which endangers the entire system, and the consequences of violations which are extremely well explained beforehand.

I know some people believe there should never be any secrets at all. Having had an abundance of access to various secrets over the years, I know why they're secrets. It's not because the average U.S. citizen couldn't handle it, as many have, through countless military, government, and contracting jobs. Rather, it's because there are a few people who would misuse the information, either disseminating it to those who've not been cleared for access, or using it for more sinister means.

When someone has gone through the background investigations, has signed the non-disclosure agreements, and considering the sensitive and potentially damaging nature of the information involved, if they then choose to misdirect that information to those not cleared for access, then yes, they should be punished, and severely.

When they choose to upload it for the entire world to see in violation of all agreements and laws, then they should be charged with treason. As I understand it, the U.S. Justice Department is being very lenient by merely asking for a life sentence.

Agreed... he's lucky to be facing life in solitary... his sanity won't last anyway given the watch he'll be under.

I think it would be kinder to let him commit suicide, but I have no love for traitors.

 

[mugaliens]

Manning is kept naked all night every night and is required to respond verbally every 5 minutes to his jailers' inquiries. If he is not nuts by now, He should be soon.

I agree that's unusually excessive and cruel. Totally against anything and everything I ever signed up for 20 years ago.

If they're at all concerned about his safety, simply put him in a jacket, a rubber room, and raise the temperature a few degrees so that he won't shiver while sleeping, and give the traitor a humanitarian night's rest.

Anything else merely negatively reflects upon the integrity of the United States as a whole, while bringing into question, "Who the hell is in charge of these going-ons?" along with a side comment, "This isn't right. Ever."

 

[nismaratwork]

I agree that's unusually excessive and cruel. Totally against anything and everything I ever signed up for 20 years ago.

If they're at all concerned about his safety, simply put him in a jacket, a rubber room, and raise the temperature a few degrees so that he won't shiver while sleeping, and give the traitor a humanitarian night's rest.

Anything else merely negatively reflects upon the integrity of the United States as a whole, while bringing into question, "Who the hell is in charge of these going-ons?" along with a side comment, "This isn't right. Ever."

Better he breaks before trial than during or after... and leaving him intact is hardly an option. In a better world, he'd be treated humanely until execution, but we don't live in that world.

He's still better off than most traitors...

 

[Evo]

I agree that's unusually excessive and cruel. Totally against anything and everything I ever signed up for 20 years ago.

It's not true, he is not being awakened at night and he has two blankets to sleep with at night.