News What happened with S. 190 and why was it not passed?

[Cyrus]

Tomorrow, Sarah Palin will get destroyed by Joe Biden.


Watch the McCain-Palin poles drop faster than the stock market after tomorrow.


Is it me or are you cuter every time you don't know what to say?

Pew pew pew pew...ding!

 

[lisab]

Problem is, her expectations are so, so incredibly low that she may do better than expected (she's expected to bomb, after all). And that's all the media will focus on.

 

[Art]

Tomorrow, Sarah Palin will get destroyed by Joe Biden. Watch the McCain-Palin poles drop faster than the stock market after tomorrow. Is it me or are you cuter every time you don't know what to say?

Pew pew pew pew...ding!

IMO Sarah Palin will adopt the same tactic Margaret Thatcher used to great effect. Whereby you learn a few sentences off by heart and no matter what the question is, you recite your lines.

I remember as an example Thatcher being asked one time by a journalist about an issue related to health. Thatcher responded along the lines of, "I'm glad you asked me that, the problem with the education system today is blah blah blah." The reporter tried a second time and got the exact same response. A third attempt was met with a sharp rebuke from Thatcher "I've already answered that question, now move on."

Done in the right tone this type of stonewalling can be perceived as showing strong character traits and people quickly forget that the original question was never answered.

Certainly it never did Thatcher any harm and although Palin is no Thatcher, from what I have read she has a similar approach, whereby she speaks in sweeping generalities and then veers off onto some folksy story of life in Alaska, but as she never directly addresses the issue, she also says nothing that people can point at as definitively wrong whereas if Biden throws out 100 facts and one of them is wrong that is all you are going to hear about.

 

[Cyrus]

Don't worry, if she can't do well on catie couric, there's no way in hell she's going to hold up against a seasoned pro like Biden.

He's going to make a complete fool out of her, or more accurately, she'll make a fool out of herself. He's a lawyer by trade, well spoken and articulate.

I just *hope* he makes her seem stupid on her own doing, and not like he's beating her up and coming off as a bad guy and her as a 'poor woman'.

This isn't a matter of what people are expecting of her. I'll bet you $20.00 she BOMBS. There is no question in my mind -at all - she's going to crash and burn.

There's no way she's going to get an education on the economy AND foreign policy in the limited time she had to prepare. It's like cramming all night before an exam, it's going to show. Her answers are going to come off as reading lines someone told her.

It's like seeing a plane crash in slow motion. You know its going to happen, but you can't look away. You're like here it comes........WOOOSH. Let's watch that again in even slower motion!

 

[LowlyPion]

I think that would be a dangerous expectation.

While I agree that the tactics that went over well in Alaska will not translate that well nationally, I expect that she will do better at least with her base than you are thinking now.

The intangibles of the debate, body message, gentility, humor, personality register with the public at large. Hopefully Biden can restrain himself and not fall into a gaffe trap. Letting Palin prattle on is likely the best strategy, and then stepping in should she hang herself with awkwardness or inappropriateness and make note of it then move on and not dwell on her mistakes. The spin doctors afterward will rip her the new one if she really screws up. Above the fray is the best place for Biden.

 

[Cyrus]

Here's the sad part. I'm watching the VP debates JUST to see Palin look stupid.

I think most americans are too. Which defeats the point of watching it to hear *what* they have to say. I really don't care what she has to say because I know its all staged, and she's a mouthpiece 'yeswoman' for McCain.

 

[OAQfirst]

This might help explain why many people will vote for her anyway.

"What it's like to debate Sarah Palin"

Anchorage, Alaska - When he faces off against Sarah Palin Thursday night, Joe Biden will have his hands full.

I should know. I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality. Against such charms there is little Senator Biden, or anyone, can do.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20081001/cm_csm/yseaquist;_ylt=AsoeAlktnb2Ti3OSC52a.Iis0NUE

 

[Evo]

It seems if she holds to what she's known for, it will be a lot of fluff and double speak.

One of her opponents, Andrew Halcro, had memorized the complexities of the subject beforehand. He was super prepared. He might as well have stared out the window during the proceedings, for all it mattered.

"She did such a great job with just the glittering generalities and filling the room with her presence that people didn't care what she said about agriculture," Halcro says now. "Palin's a master at spending 45 seconds telling you what color the sky is," he adds, "and people will say, 'That's the greatest thing I ever heard.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_el_pr/the_veep_debaters

I'm sorry, but all I see when she speaks is someone spouting off rehearsed lines and cliches, but she doesn't quite know when to utter them. I think people will be looking at her a lot differently than the people in Alaska did.

The intangibles of the debate, body message, gentility, humor, personality register with the public at large.

I don't see any of these things when I see her on tv. But then I don't think Obama is a charismatic speaker either. I guess a politician's "charms" are lost on me because I'm focusing on what they are saying.

 

[Art]

This might help explain why many people will vote for her anyway.

"What it's like to debate Sarah Palin"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20081001/cm_csm/yseaquist;_ylt=AsoeAlktnb2Ti3OSC52a.Iis0NUE

Yes. That's the point I was making.

To any intelligent onlooker she is quite obviously clueless but unfortunately most of the audience are not intelligent or they are partisan and so see and hear what they want to and so will fall for her act.

From the link above; Palin says,

"Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?' " Palin said.

While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured – because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy.

 

[turbo]

Biden has one job in front of him. He has to be accurate and concise (the concise part is the really tough part, for him) and he has to be respectful of Palin and let her hang herself with her ignorant responses without appearing to enjoy it. That's all.

With that kind of discipline, Biden slams one out of the park without breaking a sweat.

 

[LowlyPion]

I guess a politician's "charms" are lost on me because I'm focusing on what they are saying.

That's no fair.

You're focusing on their verbiage.

 

[Evo]

That's no fair.

You're focusing on their verbiage.

I know it's wrong, but I am a bad person.

 

[Art]

Biden has one job in front of him. He has to be accurate and concise (the concise part is the really tough part, for him) and he has to be respectful of Palin and let her hang herself with her ignorant responses without appearing to enjoy it. That's all.

With that kind of discipline, Biden slams one out of the park without breaking a sweat.

I disagree. These debates are not some sort of University Challenge where the person with the most right answers wins. Whoever connects best with the audience wins. It is an unfortunate fact the majority of the electorate do not like their politicians to appear to be smarter than them. They want someone they feel they could hold their own with in a one on one conversation.

 

[Cyrus]

I've been listening to cspan radio. They are playing live all the senators and reps giving talks about the economy in the houses.

These guys all stink. Bla bla bla...this bill is so important. It will separate the men from the boys and the women from the girls.

One after the other, stupid cliche speeches.

 

[Cyrus]

I just realized why they have that corp jet for the governor. To fly her a** back home, never to be seen or heard from again after this election!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If Palin sticks to scripted answers, Biden could blow it. And at this point I have to suspect that expectations for Palin are too low. She can't be as dumb as she sounds. More likely she was in overload. But, even so, by the time the debate is over, McCain could be dead.

Biden could blow it, and truthfully, with expectations for Palin so low, I think there is a good chance that he will get too aggressive, or that he might make a stupid gaffe that defines the evening, but I don't see this having a significant effect on the race. The most that McCain can hope is that Palin gains some degree of respectability.

The thing is, the judgement of the entire debate can rest on one line.

 

[turbo]

I disagree. These debates are not some sort of University Challenge where the person with the most right answers wins. Whoever connects best with the audience wins. It is an unfortunate fact the majority of the electorate do not like their politicians to appear to be smarter than them. They want someone they feel they could hold their own with in a one on one conversation.

We'll see after tomorrow. I think that most Americans would like to think that people much smarter than themselves are taking care of stuff. If you are right, we may wake up with a McCain/Palin administration after election day.

 

[Cyrus]

If Palin sticks to scripted answers, Biden could blow it. And at this point I have to suspect that expectations for Palin are too low. She can't be as dumb as she sounds. More likely she was in overload. But, even so, by the time the debate is over, McCain could be dead.

Biden could blow it, and truthfully, with expectations for Palin so low, I think there is a good chance that he will get too aggressive, or that he might make a stupid gaffe that defines the evening, but I don't see this having a significant effect on the race.

Oh, I am sure she's a lot dumber than she sounds.

 

[LowlyPion]

I know it's wrong, but I am a bad person.

I've heard that said.

But I must invoke my rights against self incrimination or any other kind of incrimination, or recrimination, or discrimination, or all the way to downright damnation by not saying anything further on the subject.

 

[Art]

We'll see after tomorrow. I think that most Americans would like to think that people much smarter than themselves are taking care of stuff. If you are right, we may wake up with a McCain/Palin administration after election day.

Don't get me wrong. I hope you are proven right, but having watched the US electorate twice elect a complete moron to the job of president I expect the worst these days.

 

[turbo]

Don't get me wrong. I hope you are proven right, but having watched the US electorate twice elect a complete moron to the job of president I expect the worst these days.

I fear you are right - I fear I am wrong.

 

[Borek]

I planned to post it without comments, but animation index is coded as CAPITALS ONLY and forum software decapitalizes whole thing automatically - which makes it impossible to watch video.

WALIARHHLII[/youtube]

 

[Defennder]

For those who itch for a "sneak preview" this clip comes closest to an actual debate. Katie Couric asked both Veep candidates separately the same questions, and these are their responses:
http://cbs13.com/campaign08/palin.biden.abortion.2.830539.html

 

[Alfi]

For those who itch for a "sneak preview" this clip comes closest to an actual debate. Katie Couric asked both Veep candidates separately the same questions, and these are their responses:
http://cbs13.com/campaign08/palin.biden.abortion.2.830539.html

An accurate example of what I expect from tonight's debate.

 

[Amp1]

Have any of you given some thought of how the moderator (who's that any way?) will phrase the questions? She/he may phrase them in such a way that the person answering will find double talk or mis-direction and generalizing very difficult. I think the reporters have caught on to Palin - she's doesn't even come close to Clinton in being able to splice/parse/pare words and definitions.

 

[LowlyPion]

Gewn Ifill is of course being excoriated in advance because of her supposed bias for Obama.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/10/02/vp_debate_moderator_accused_of_bias/

Perhaps we should wait and see.

I've heard it commented on that tonight is not about McCain/Palin winning the election, so much as it is about Palin salvaging any hope for a political future after this campaign. With her popularity plummeting even in Alaska as more becomes known about her there even that never really came out there before.

 

[RyanSchw]

I thought this was interesting, it's from ZapperZ's thread in general discussion.

*Caution* Before viewing this video you might want to have some really strong booze handy.

http://www.viralvideochart.com/break/redneck_woman_rails_on_obama?id=NTgwMDc1

If you notice in the "Today's Top 20 Viral Videos" section just below, http://www.viralvideochart.com/youtube/sarah_palin_cant_name_a_newspaper_she_reads?id=xRkWebP2Q0Y" is posted. She seems to have a hard time coming up with a news paper she reads.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I disagree. These debates are not some sort of University Challenge where the person with the most right answers wins. Whoever connects best with the audience wins. It is an unfortunate fact the majority of the electorate do not like their politicians to appear to be smarter than them. They want someone they feel they could hold their own with in a one on one conversation.

Eh, VP debates mean nothing. In fact some have said that this will determine Palin's future more than McCain's, but in this case I think she could cost him the election. No way can she win it for him.

 

[Amp1]

I agree with Ivan. She is losing favor in Alaska as was observed because the people didn't really know her only what the were fed/spun; their interest level was likely pretty low then too. Now, its a different ballgame.

 

[LowlyPion]

My expectation is that it will be a non-decisive wash.

Biden will not likely screw up too badly. And neither will Palin though the country is likely to be a little dumber for having to listen to her, like that Billy Madison clip posted earlier.

The Republicans will high five themselves in the spin room regardless of whatever Palin says. They will be euphoric if she places Russia simply in Asia.

I think for the most part though people will be watching, for about the same reason they go to car races - to see pile-ups or massive crashes at high speed. I doubt Palin or Biden will be able to change the calculus all that much.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I have obtained a transcript of tonight's debate, a portion of which I divulge below:

Ifill: What's 2 + 2.
Palin: 5. America is doing the right thing by promoting democracy around the world. Our economy will recover and all will be well.
Biden: 4: America is a lousy country that invades weaker ones. The economy is doomed, doomed I tell you.

Palin wins it 5 to 4.

 

[Evo]

Lieberman: Palin should avoid 'IQ test'

Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman thinks that in order for Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to beat her Democratic rival, Sen. Joe Biden, in tonight’s debate, she needs to keep it from turning into an “IQ test.”

Absolutely, we surely don't want a VP, someone that has a good chance of being instantly thrown into the role of President of one of the world's super powers to actually have an inkling about government on a national level, much less an understanding of the world.

“Whether she can answer every detailed question, I don't think that ultimately matters to the American people,” the Connecticut senator added. “She doesn't know every detail, all the questions senators deal with, but, frankly, that's her strength.”

Her strength is that she doesn't know?

“I think the point is, who is she as a person? I think that's what people are ultimately looking for,” Lieberman said.

Unfortunately, he's probably right that there are millions of clueless Americans that wouldn't even know if her answers are correct.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081002/pl_politico/14224;_ylt=AkgaQbVSDmaNhkTgGC7SBafCw5R4

I wonder how much, if anything, she knows about how the government is set up? It's not something she'd have any knowledge about as a mayor of a small town with a population equivalent to a large city neighborhood. Not even something she'd need to know to get elected as Governor of Alaska. It is something the Vice-President should know, however.

It's too depressing to even think about.

 

[Evo]

Ahahaha, there is a VP Debate drinking game. You take a drink -

If Palin:
• invokes McCain's POW history
• mentions her husband or any of her children by name (make it a double if she says "Track in Iraq").
• says any of the following: "pitbull," "lipstick," "hockey mom," "Joe Six-Pack," "maverick," "barracuda," "glass ceiling," or "plagiarism."
• says "gosh," "gee," "golly," "darn," "heck" or any other homespun curse euphemism.
• evades answering a question. (this one alone guarantees anyone playing will get blind drunk)
• cries poverty.
• is actually carrying a firearm.
• cites Russia's proximity to Alaska or talks about her great love for the state of Israel in response to a question about foreign policy (been there, done that!).
• mentions by name any animal species native to her home state.
• is wearing a suit that costs more than her plane.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Don't get me wrong. I hope you are proven right, but having watched the US electorate twice elect a complete moron to the job of president I expect the worst these days.

I am expecting the worst on November 2008. That's why every american who knows enough about the country's situation should register to vote, and more importantly VOTE!.

 

[lisab]

Ahahaha, there is a VP Debate drinking game. You take a drink -

If Palin:
• invokes McCain's POW history
• mentions her husband or any of her children by name (make it a double if she says "Track in Iraq").
• says any of the following: "pitbull," "lipstick," "hockey mom," "Joe Six-Pack," "maverick," "barracuda," "glass ceiling," or "plagiarism."
• says "gosh," "gee," "golly," "darn," "heck" or any other homespun curse euphemism.
• evades answering a question. (this one alone guarantees anyone playing will get blind drunk)
• cries poverty.
• is actually carrying a firearm.
• cites Russia's proximity to Alaska or talks about her great love for the state of Israel in response to a question about foreign policy (been there, done that!).
• mentions by name any animal species native to her home state.
• is wearing a suit that costs more than her plane.

NNOOOOO! Evo, people are going to die tonight, from alcohol poisoning!

...Track in Iraq and Trig in the crib...heeheee...

 

[LowlyPion]

Absolutely, we surely don't want a VP, someone that has a good chance of being instantly thrown into the role of President ...

I hope the Democrats win a super majority in the Senate and boot Lieberman out of the party. He has been such a McCain lap dog this election. I've lost total respect for him.

 

[LowlyPion]

NNOOOOO! Evo, people are going to die tonight, from alcohol poisoning!

...Track in Iraq and Trig in the crib...heeheee...

says "gosh," "gee," "golly," "darn," "heck" or any other homespun curse euphemism.

Might as well start with the stomach pump already in place.

 

[cristo]

• evades answering a question. (this one alone guarantees anyone playing will get blind drunk)

You can't have that rule in any political discussion/debate/speech.

• cites Russia's proximity to Alaska or talks about her great love for the state of Israel in response to a question about foreign policy (been there, done that!).

LOL.. 'I can see Russia from my house!'

Shame it's on so late on a school night, I won't be able to watch. Still, it'll make for interesting morning viewing (supposing I can find it online somewhere.. I guess the BBC will record it and keep it on their website).

 

[Evo]

Shame it's on so late on a school night, I won't be able to watch. Still, it'll make for interesting morning viewing (supposing I can find it online somewhere.. I guess the BBC will record it and keep it on their website).

I'm just hoping that my blood pressure doesn't get too high during the debate. I read that Palin's tactic tonight will be to dredge up ancient history where Biden and Obama differed, like that has any meaning today, or that it's even a bad thing. I'm sure I will be screaming at the tv tonight, reminiscent of Chevy Chase and Jane Curtin on SNL "Jane, you ignorant slut". Can I say that? It was ok with tv censors eons ago.

Or maybe Palin is more like Roseanne Roseannadanna. Where she'd go off on some pointless tirade based on a misunderstanding. "Nevermind".

 

[Cyrus]

CHOOOOooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Cyrus]

clack clack, clack clack, CHOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW

(That is the sound of a train about to de-rail)

 

[OrbitalPower]

Palin isn't a fan of keeping up with the news:


And even Hasselback -- the view -- thought it was ridiculous she couldn't name a supreme court case besides roe v. wade she disagreed with.

Still, I don't think she'll blow it. That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking they'll say after the debate that she held herself well, and that she won't be "destroyed."

 

[cristo]

Did she just wink? Wow.. that's the sort of thing to expect from a used car salesperson!

Oh my god.. she's an idiot! Please, America, don't vote her into office!

 

[Evo]

BUWAHAHA, only 5 minutes into the debate and she already said "joe six pack and hockey moms" in the same breath. She's absolutely horrible. What's with the winks and the hand waving??

 

[LowlyPion]

If anyone is playing the drinking game, they can no longer read this thread ... and we are only 12 minutes in.

 

[Evo]

If anyone is playing the drinking game, they can no longer read this thread ... and we are only 12 minutes in.

It's surreal, what is with all these ridiculous cutesy facial expressions? This isn't a beauty pageant, this is serious, or should be.

 

[turbo]

She's running off the rails "toxic mess on Main street that affects Wall Street" ??

 

[chasely]

I think she should talk about her energy expertise some more

 

[rootX]

She delivered all without facts..

Biden turn: now let's look at the facts

 

[LowlyPion]

It's surreal, what is with all these ridiculous cutesy facial expressions? This isn't a beauty pageant, this is serious, or should be.

She's self destructing. No one told her to slow down. The more she says the worse for her. She looks scattered, evasive, at 35 minutes in it looks like it's over.