News Sarah Palin: Will She Run for President in 2012?

[Evo]

Ok, I guess we are all in agreement that Palin didn't make these statements - it was just the personal opinion of the new PF member.

Yes, and not making those "exact" statements doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with Palin's views on religion through politics, IMO.

 

[_Tully]

If she had made those exact arguments, there would be nothing to fear because almost no one would take that seriously, or promote it to any sort of success (thus being useless not only in converting people to 'her' ideas, but also as a tool for those who hold those ideals).

On the other hand this 'soft' and 'unbiased' view should be taken as religious espionage, with all of it's poison (maybe kool-aid is a more apt analogy, heh) seeping it's way into our (public) schools.

 

[turbo]

In the 2006 governor's race, Palin said that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in public schools. Due perhaps to the cautious nature of espousing such nonsense in public, she couched her statement in terms of fairness and open-mindedness, so we don't know if she was a young-Earther back then (6000 years ago, men and dinosaurs roamed the Earth) or if she just rejects the Darwinist theory of common ancestry. Frankly, I doubt that she's educated enough to be able to tell the difference.

The thought that somebody would urge the Alaskan air-head to run for President is a sign of their incompetence as much as of hers. I want a President who can think critically, is aware of issues, and knows how and from whom to get guidance when an issue is too complex or when (s)he lacks the background to come up to speed quickly enough to make decisions. We are all affected by the actions of our President, and frankly, I want the best, most competent individual we can agree on in that position. When McCain chose Palin, he lost my support immediately, and that of many Independents, I believe. McCain blew it - he could be President today had he chosen an old-style conservative as running-mate. When you're old and have had many bouts with cancer, people start looking at your VP pick pretty closely.

 

[WhoWee]

If she had made those exact arguments, there would be nothing to fear because almost no one would take that seriously, or promote it to any sort of success (thus being useless not only in converting people to 'her' ideas, but also as a tool for those who hold those ideals).

On the other hand this 'soft' and 'unbiased' view should be taken as religious espionage, with all of it's poison (maybe kool-aid is a more apt analogy, heh) seeping it's way into our (public) schools.

Can you elaborate - may offer a little support as well?

 

[WhoWee]

In the 2006 governor's race, Palin said that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in public schools. Due perhaps to the cautious nature of espousing such nonsense in public, she couched her statement in terms of fairness and open-mindedness, so we don't know if she was a young-Earther back then (6000 years ago, men and dinosaurs roamed the Earth) or if she just rejects the Darwinist theory of common ancestry. Frankly, I doubt that she's educated enough to be able to tell the difference.

You are correct, we don't know - this entire conversation is based on supposition - as so far nobody has found a link where she's talking about donosaurs 6,000 years ago.

 

[_Tully]

Can you elaborate - may offer a little support as well?

Not really, it's just an opinion. I am extremely biased on this one.

 

[WhoWee]

Not really, it's just an opinion. I am extremely biased on this one.

You might also want to read the rules.

 

[_Tully]

You might also want to read the rules.

I think it was clear my post was an opinion and not a fact, and my last post ("it's just an opinion") should have cleared that up, if it was foggy, hah.

 

[WhoWee]

I think it was clear my post was an opinion and not a fact, and my last post ("it's just an opinion") should have cleared that up, if it was foggy, hah.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=414380

 

[Evo]

Not really, it's just an opinion. I am extremely biased on this one.

You might also want to read the rules.

What, this rule?

4) When stating an opinion on an issue, make sure it is clearly stated to be an opinion and not asserted as fact.

So using "IMO", "I personally believe", "in my opinion", etc... are all fine.

Only opinions stated as fact require backup. This would be "Palin said she went to the moon". It would not be "I personally believe that Palin said she went to the moon" The first sentence is stating a fact, the second is stating an opinion.

 

[WhoWee]

What, this rule? So using "IMO", "I personally believe", "in my opinion", etc... are all fine.

Only opinions stated as fact require backup. This would be "Palin said she went to the moon". It would not be "I personally believe that Palin said she went to the moon" The first sentence is stating a fact, the second is stating an opinion.

I don't see any of those specified in his post?

"If she had made those exact arguments, there would be nothing to fear because almost no one would take that seriously, or promote it to any sort of success (thus being useless not only in converting people to 'her' ideas, but also as a tool for those who hold those ideals).

On the other hand this 'soft' and 'unbiased' view should be taken as religious espionage, with all of it's poison (maybe kool-aid is a more apt analogy, heh) seeping it's way into our (public) schools."

 

[_Tully]

You seriously thought I was presenting those opinions as fact? C'mon, I find that hard to believe. I will state all my opinions as being such beforehand from now on though.

 

[Evo]

I don't see any of those specified in his post?

"If she had made those exact arguments, there would be nothing to fear because almost no one would take that seriously, or promote it to any sort of success (thus being useless not only in converting people to 'her' ideas, but also as a tool for those who hold those ideals).

On the other hand this 'soft' and 'unbiased' view should be taken as religious espionage, with all of it's poison (maybe kool-aid is a more apt analogy, heh) seeping it's way into our (public) schools."

And he thoroughly clarified that it was only an opinion. Did you miss that?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3006386&postcount=56

I will not, however, condone wild speculation or false information to be continually presented under the guise of opinion either. There is a line where opinion becomes overly speculative and is against the rules.

 

[CAC1001]

I highly doubt the amendments of the Constitution are going to replaced with the Bible and children start being taught that the Earth is 6,000 years old if Palin becomes President (and that's a big IF!).

Presidents can't just amend the Constitution at their will, and we have that big body known as the Congress, which stalled President Obama for over a year in getting his healthcare bill passed, and that was with a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate. Palin likely wouldn't have a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate as president, but even if she did, I highly doubt all Republicans would go along with trying to impose something like creationism into the public education system (and that's assuming that even would be a goal of Palin's, considering Palin, being a limited government Republican, would likely not even want the federal government to be messing with education most likely (most conservatives see it as a states issue)).

Some quick research shows Palin is okay with the teaching of evolution in schools, but doesn't want it to be part of the curriculum, and would not push for school boards to make it part of the curriculum. But she encourages it be brought up and discussed and is okay with it personally. She also has said she believes parents should have ultimate say over what their child is taught.

Here is a link to quotes she has made on the subject: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Education.htm

As for qualification, I'd say she will need to show she understands the issues.

Did he quit politics to sign a book deal, get a tv commentary deal, and a reality tv series before running?

I wouldn't say Palin "quit," so much as was forced out. She was unable to govern, and personally liable financially for all the lawsuits coming against her. IMO she did the right thing stepping down, both for herself and the people of Alaska (wouldn't have made much sense to risk personal bankruptcy and not even be able to continue governing). If she runs though, her resigning the Governorship of Alaska will probably sort of be to her what the whole Reverand Wright issue was to Obama (critics will harp on it constantly, supporters will be okay with it).

 

[Al68]

Presidents can't just amend the Constitution at their will...

This is very true, in fact, the President has no official role whatsoever in the amendment process.

 

[ThomasT]

Here's an http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...ection-that-will-be-held-in-720-days?ps=cprs" that seems to suggest Palin is considering running for President in 2012. I wasn't very impressed with what I saw from her in '08, but I haven't seen much of her since then.

How's she been doing? Do you think she has a chance?

Sure she has a chance. The US is populated by lots of ignorant people. This isn't to say that Palin is ignorant. She's a very calculating and cunning politician. Whether she would be a good president or not is an open question. There's really only one way to find out.

 

[John Mario]

Here's an http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...ection-that-will-be-held-in-720-days?ps=cprs" that seems to suggest Palin is considering running for President in 2012. I wasn't very impressed with what I saw from her in '08, but I haven't seen much of her since then.

How's she been doing? Do you think she has a chance?

According to CNN, Sarah Palin recently stated that North Korea is a strong US ally. These kind of blunders must cease if she wants to be viewed as a serious candidate in 2012. I think she should serve in the US Senate before running for President.

 

[Aerodynamic20]

If Palin is elected in 2012, how will America look like? is it going to be like a TV show series where Palin is the main actress?

Probably I may go with Barbara Bush when she was asked what she thinks about S.Palin, on Larry King Live (a couple weeks ago), and said, "She is from Alaska, right? I hope she stays there". Well said Barbara!

 

[John Mario]

When VP Joe Biden was asked about Palin's possible bid for the Presidency, he started laughing. Personally, I am not a fan of the Tea Party.

I don't think Sarah Palin would be a good President.

 

[John Mario]

With regard to Sarah's campaign rhetoric, I like the phrase coined by comedian Pat Paulsen on the Smothers Brother's Comedy Hour:

"The past lays behind us and the future lies lies lies."

 

[BobG]

Palin's views on creationism/evolution are as undefined as she's able to get away with. She wasn't a creationist during the 2008 campaign, in spite of liberal attacks on her being raised in her mother's church (a church her father didn't belong to). Evidently, she later realized being perceived as a creationist might not be such a bad thing.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Bright-Green/2009/1119/going-rogue-is-sarah-palin-a-creationist

On the other hand, it does appear that Sarah Palin either has cannibalistic views or very limited expertise in biology: "If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come He made them out of meat?"

 

[Mkorr]

The biologist and philosopher Massimo Pigliucci suggests that Palin is, in fact, a creationist, due to the fact that http://www.livescience.com/culture/080901-sb-palin-creationist.html.

The relevant quote from Plain:

Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution. It's been a healthy foundation for me. But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides.

Palin also http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/09/politics/main6189211.shtml.

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin called studies supporting global climate change a "bunch of snake oil science" Monday during a rare appearance in California, a state that has been at the forefront of environmental regulations.

She also does not understand the value of model organisms, http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=palin-takes-on-fruit-flies--and-los-2008-10-27 as a useless waste of money for no good. Instead, she wanted to fund projects for kinds with special needs, such as autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Little did she knew, but studying fruit flies may be a key to better understand the root of the very same condition.

Not to be overly generous with my own rhetoric, but Palin may lead the US into the next scientific dark age, or, more realistically, compromise the teaching of evolution in public schools, cut of funding for basic science research and fail to emphasize the growing concern about global warming.

When it comes to science, Palin is pretty much, in my opinion, a crank.

 

[ThomasT]

According to CNN, Sarah Palin recently stated that North Korea is a strong US ally. These kind of blunders must cease if she wants to be viewed as a serious candidate in 2012. I think she should serve in the US Senate before running for President.

My honest opinion is that she's an idiot. But we elect lots of idiots to very high public offices. This is the nature of the beast. The USA is populated by an extremely large number of ignorant people.

Then again there's also the possibiltiy that she's not an idiot but is mostly just acting. This seems to be a reasonable assumption.

Bottom line, how much harm could she do to the country if elected to a national public office? Probably not any more than any other elected public official could or would do.

VOTE PALIN. Yeah that's right. We really don't give a ****.

 

[WhoWee]

Sure she has a chance. The US is populated by lots of ignorant people. This isn't to say that Palin is ignorant. She's a very calculating and cunning politician. Whether she would be a good president or not is an open question. There's really only one way to find out.

What makes you believe Palin will capture the "ignorant" vote?

 

[WhoWee]

My honest opinion is that she's an idiot. But we elect lots of idiots to very high public offices. This is the nature of the beast. The USA is populated by an extremely large number of ignorant people.Then again there's also the possibiltiy that she's not an idiot but is mostly just acting. This seems to be a reasonable assumption.

This is the second time you've posted this way. Here is the first.
"Sure she has a chance. The US is populated by lots of ignorant people. This isn't to say that Palin is ignorant. She's a very calculating and cunning politician. Whether she would be a good president or not is an open question. There's really only one way to find out. "

Please see above - from Evo.
"I will not, however, condone wild speculation or false information to be continually presented under the guise of opinion either. There is a line where opinion becomes overly speculative and is against the rules."

Might it be time to back up your posts?

 

[CAC1001]

According to CNN, Sarah Palin recently stated that North Korea is a strong US ally. These kind of blunders must cease if she wants to be viewed as a serious candidate in 2012. I think she should serve in the US Senate before running for President.

It was a simple mis-statement that the media decided to blow way out of proportion. Here is the link to the conversation with Glenn Beck (for those who don't want to listen to the whole fifteen minutes, skip to 11:05 and start there): http://www.therightscoop.com/glenn-beck-has-fun-interview-with-sarah-palin

Here is Palin's response to this on her Facebook page, with links to flubs by Obama: http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/a-thanksgiving-message-to-all-57-states/463364218434

Some conservatives have tried to blow Obama's statements out of proportion as well, what Palin and Obama show is they can happen to anyone. I remember for example durng the '08 election, Obama did an interview in which he referred to "...my Muslim faith..." The interviewer then corrected him, and it was an obvious flub.

 

[lisab]

It was a simple mis-statement that the media decided to blow way out of proportion. Here is the link to the conversation with Glenn Beck (for those who don't want to listen to the whole fifteen minutes, skip to 11:05 and start there): http://www.therightscoop.com/glenn-beck-has-fun-interview-with-sarah-palin

Here is Palin's response to this on her Facebook page, with links to flubs by Obama: http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/a-thanksgiving-message-to-all-57-states/463364218434

Some conservatives have tried to blow Obama's statements out of proportion as well, what Palin and Obama show is they can happen to anyone. I remember for example durng the '08 election, Obama did an interview in which he referred to "...my Muslim faith..." The interviewer then corrected him, and it was an obvious flub.

One of my pet peeves: when slips-of-the-tongue are blown up, out of all proportion. Politicians talk a *lot*, especially during an election. They're all going to make a mistake from time to time.

There are plenty of substantive issues on which I disagree with Palin; I could not support her even if she was as gifted at speaking as Obama is.

 

[CAC1001]

Politicians talk a *lot*, especially during an election. They're all going to make a mistake from time to time.

Yup.

There are plenty of substantive issues on which I disagree with Palin; I could not support her even if she was as gifted at speaking as Obama is.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[mheslep]

One of my pet peeves: when slips-of-the-tongue are blown up, out of all proportion. Politicians talk a *lot*, especially during an election. They're all going to make a mistake from time to time.

2nd that, and I'll go a step further: they're all going to make policy mistakes from time to time, like 'I'll close Gitmo in the first year' (paraphrasing). Or, given your fine choice of sig, see Adams and his Sedition Act for example.

 

[turbo]

One of my pet peeves: when slips-of-the-tongue are blown up, out of all proportion. Politicians talk a *lot*, especially during an election. They're all going to make a mistake from time to time.

Was it a slip? Palin thought Africa was a country, among other nuggets gleaned from McCain's team of groomers after the election was lost.

 

[mheslep]

Yeah, yeah, and Obama said there were 57 states, mistook Iraq for Iran, do dah, do dah.

 

[turbo]

Here you go - from your favorite "news" source.

 

[WhoWee]

Was it a slip? Palin thought Africa was a country, among other nuggets gleaned from McCain's team of groomers after the election was lost.

Obama sure was lucky to have Joe Biden as VP - he'll probably never say anything silly - right?

 

[turbo]

Obama sure was lucky to have Joe Biden as VP - he'll probably never say anything silly - right?

Biden may have loose lips, but he's a policy geek and he's a whole lot smarter and better-educated than Palin. McCain screwed up big-time by picking Palin. It cost him the presidency.

 

[WhoWee]

Biden may have loose lips, but he's a policy geek and he's a whole lot smarter and better-educated than Palin. McCain screwed up big-time by picking Palin. It cost him the presidency.

You might want to label all of that opinion - rather than try to support any of it.

 

[turbo]

You might want to label all of that opinion - rather than try to support any of it.

Do you honestly think that Biden doesn't realize that Africa is a continent with lots of countries? I'm not going to be able to dig up a link to prove he knows something that most middle-schoolers could tell you.

 

[Evo]

What about Palin praising the "Prayer Warriors" at the "Women of Joy" conference and for their "prayer shield" they provide her. Although Palin has tried to get all traces of the video from the conference removed from the internet, she failed. I have a copy. You'll find this most places where the media linked to her video. http://www.youtube.com/user/piper4444205#p/a/u/0/RoYuZyxNlZk

The "Prayer Warriors" are a fringe religious group that have maps of "demons" located in the country and pray against them. Remember the church video of her being prayed for against witches which she claims is why she won the Alaskan race then? Yes, she did go on record giving that "hands on de-witching" credit, and I have it.

Oh, and wait, what's this? Palin re-interpreting the intent of our founding fathers at the same conference?

But two groups dedicated to the separation of church and state are now speaking out against her, arguing that she is misreading the founders' intent.

"It's incredibly hypocritical that Sarah Palin, who disapproves of government involvement in just about anything, now suddenly wants the government to help people be religious," Barry Lynn, the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told ABC News.

"It is wildly inconsistent with her views on limited government to get the government involved in matters of faith."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sara...te-separation-debate/story?id=10419289&page=1

Oh, I have plenty more, but I'm tired right now.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Biden may have loose lips, but he's a policy geek and he's a whole lot smarter and better-educated than Palin. McCain screwed up big-time by picking Palin. It cost him the presidency.

You might want to label all of that opinion - rather than try to support any of it.

Turbo's claims are

1. Biden is a policy geek
2. Biden is smarter than Palin
3. Biden is better-educated than Palin
4. McCain was (strategically?) wrong to pick Palin.
5. McCain's choice of Palin as VP candidate cost him the presidency, that is, there is an individual that, campaigning with McCain instead of Palin, would have caused McCain to win the 2008 election.

Insofar as #4 is distinct from #5, it is opinion, and I don't think you're asking turbo to support that. #1 also seems pure opinion, and I likewise don't think you're asking him to support that point. #3 should be essentially a matter of record: has either completed a higher level of education than the other? Failing that, which attended a more prestigious institution? #5 is a complex question that could best be addressed by asking experts. #2 is perhaps possible to ascertain, but I have serious doubts about the validity of intelligence testing so generally ignore questions of the form "is X smarter than Y?".

 

[CRGreathouse]

Evo -- I don't want to interfere with your sleep, but when you have a chance I'd like to know in what ways Palin is accused of attempting to "get the government involved in matters of faith" (as I haven't been following Palin). I don't immediately see the connection between that and the conference you mention -- did something happen there that I should know about?

 

[turbo]

I wanted to vote for McCain, and had he picked an old-school conservative as a running-mate, I would have. After Palin's dismal performance in interviews there is no way that I would have voted for him. We don't need a poorly-informed VP just one heartbeat away from an elderly cancer-survivor. I truly believe we'd be talking about "President McCain" today if he had chosen a conservative politician for his running-mate. Especially one with a reputation for reaching across the aisle. Picking Palin might have been an exercise in triangulation meant to dull some of Clinton's appeal, but it was a dumb move, IMO.

 

[Evo]

Evo -- I don't want to interfere with your sleep, but when you have a chance I'd like to know in what ways Palin is accused of attempting to "get the government involved in matters of faith" (as I haven't been following Palin). I don't immediately see the connection between that and the conference you mention -- did something happen there that I should know about?

I can post a website that has the conference video, the site itself is biased, but the video is real.

You can easily find it by googling "Women of Joy Sarah Palin". The ABC news link left out most of her religious stuff.

Do you want me to allow a link to the website? It's quite an eye opener. I can see why she's gone nuts trying to remove all of the copies of her speech.

 

[WhoWee]

Do you honestly think that Biden doesn't realize that Africa is a continent with lots of countries? I'm not going to be able to dig up a link to prove he knows something that most middle-schoolers could tell you.

I'm not sure what Biden knows - you're the one who made the claims?

 

[turbo]

I'm not sure what Biden knows - you're the one who made the claims?

I asked if you HONESTLY thought that Biden doesn't know that Africa is a continent composed of lots of countries. Manipulating forum rules to demand documentation of common knowledge is a poor way to make your case.

 

[turbo]

BTW, not that it matters, but If McCain had chosen Dick Lugar as his running-mate, I firmly believe those two geezers would be #1 and #2 today, instead of Obama and Biden.

 

[Al68]

I wanted to vote for McCain, and had he picked an old-school conservative as a running-mate, I would have.

You mean an old-school conservative who advocates dismantling the new deal, and all that built on it? Who wants to drastically shrink government, not just "streamline" it or make it "more efficient"?

Who wants to defeat the modern cult of individual and government irresponsibility known as the welfare state?

That kind of "old-school conservative"?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I can post a website that has the conference video, the site itself is biased, but the video is real.

I don't know that I'd really want to watch a video of her doing some New Age nonsense. I was just curious if she said (there or elsewhere) something suggesting government involvement in religion.

If all she did was some hippie garbage that doesn't mean much to me (that she can do that sort of thing is just what the 1st Amendment is supposed to protect, right?), but if she was suggesting certain policies that would be of interest to me.

 

[WhoWee]

I asked if you HONESTLY thought that Biden doesn't know that Africa is a continent composed of lots of countries. Manipulating forum rules to demand documentation of common knowledge is a poor way to make your case.

LOL - Again, I don't know what Biden knows or doesn't know. As I suggested originally - just label it all opinion - otherwise it doesn't appear you'll be able to support your post - including the "common knowledge" remark? I hardly call that a demand - just an observation.

 

[Evo]

I don't know that I'd really want to watch a video of her doing some New Age nonsense. I was just curious if she said (there or elsewhere) something suggesting government involvement in religion.

If all she did was some hippie garbage that doesn't mean much to me (that she can do that sort of thing is just what the 1st Amendment is supposed to protect, right?), but if she was suggesting certain policies that would be of interest to me.

Ill meet you halfway, not the site I mentioned, this is in between.

http://www.alternet.org/news/145796/heads_up:_prayer_warriors_and_sarah_palin_are_organizing_spiritual_warfare_to_take_over_america_?page=entire

Imagine a religious movement that makes geographic maps of where demons reside and claims among its adherents the Republican Party's most recent vice presidential nominee and whose leaders have presided over prayer sessions (one aimed at putting the kibosh on health-care reform) with a host of leading GOP figures

 

[ThomasT]

What makes you believe Palin will capture the "ignorant" vote?

Might it be time to back up your posts?

You're right. My posts were meaningless personal opinions, based on my own ignorance. Whether or not anyone else is ignorant seems impossible to determine.

Only this remains:

Whether she would be a good president or not is an open question. There's really only one way to find out.

 

[WhoWee]

Hopefully the media will be thorough (all candidates) in the 2012 run up - no surprises.