News Sarah Palin: Will She Run for President in 2012?

[Evo]

Evo -- I don't want to interfere with your sleep, but when you have a chance I'd like to know in what ways Palin is accused of attempting to "get the government involved in matters of faith" (as I haven't been following Palin). I don't immediately see the connection between that and the conference you mention -- did something happen there that I should know about?

I can post a website that has the conference video, the site itself is biased, but the video is real.

You can easily find it by googling "Women of Joy Sarah Palin". The ABC news link left out most of her religious stuff.

Do you want me to allow a link to the website? It's quite an eye opener. I can see why she's gone nuts trying to remove all of the copies of her speech.

 

[WhoWee]

Do you honestly think that Biden doesn't realize that Africa is a continent with lots of countries? I'm not going to be able to dig up a link to prove he knows something that most middle-schoolers could tell you.

I'm not sure what Biden knows - you're the one who made the claims?

 

[turbo]

I'm not sure what Biden knows - you're the one who made the claims?

I asked if you HONESTLY thought that Biden doesn't know that Africa is a continent composed of lots of countries. Manipulating forum rules to demand documentation of common knowledge is a poor way to make your case.

 

[turbo]

BTW, not that it matters, but If McCain had chosen Dick Lugar as his running-mate, I firmly believe those two geezers would be #1 and #2 today, instead of Obama and Biden.

 

[Al68]

I wanted to vote for McCain, and had he picked an old-school conservative as a running-mate, I would have.

You mean an old-school conservative who advocates dismantling the new deal, and all that built on it? Who wants to drastically shrink government, not just "streamline" it or make it "more efficient"?

Who wants to defeat the modern cult of individual and government irresponsibility known as the welfare state?

That kind of "old-school conservative"?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I can post a website that has the conference video, the site itself is biased, but the video is real.

I don't know that I'd really want to watch a video of her doing some New Age nonsense. I was just curious if she said (there or elsewhere) something suggesting government involvement in religion.

If all she did was some hippie garbage that doesn't mean much to me (that she can do that sort of thing is just what the 1st Amendment is supposed to protect, right?), but if she was suggesting certain policies that would be of interest to me.

 

[WhoWee]

I asked if you HONESTLY thought that Biden doesn't know that Africa is a continent composed of lots of countries. Manipulating forum rules to demand documentation of common knowledge is a poor way to make your case.

LOL - Again, I don't know what Biden knows or doesn't know. As I suggested originally - just label it all opinion - otherwise it doesn't appear you'll be able to support your post - including the "common knowledge" remark? I hardly call that a demand - just an observation.

 

[Evo]

I don't know that I'd really want to watch a video of her doing some New Age nonsense. I was just curious if she said (there or elsewhere) something suggesting government involvement in religion.

If all she did was some hippie garbage that doesn't mean much to me (that she can do that sort of thing is just what the 1st Amendment is supposed to protect, right?), but if she was suggesting certain policies that would be of interest to me.

Ill meet you halfway, not the site I mentioned, this is in between.

http://www.alternet.org/news/145796/heads_up:_prayer_warriors_and_sarah_palin_are_organizing_spiritual_warfare_to_take_over_america_?page=entire

Imagine a religious movement that makes geographic maps of where demons reside and claims among its adherents the Republican Party's most recent vice presidential nominee and whose leaders have presided over prayer sessions (one aimed at putting the kibosh on health-care reform) with a host of leading GOP figures

 

[ThomasT]

What makes you believe Palin will capture the "ignorant" vote?

Might it be time to back up your posts?

You're right. My posts were meaningless personal opinions, based on my own ignorance. Whether or not anyone else is ignorant seems impossible to determine.

Only this remains:

Whether she would be a good president or not is an open question. There's really only one way to find out.

 

[WhoWee]

Hopefully the media will be thorough (all candidates) in the 2012 run up - no surprises.

 

[Evo]

Hopefully the media will be thorough (all candidates) in the 2012 run up - no surprises.

I certainly hope so, that way we can elminate people like Palin.

 

[WhoWee]

I certainly hope so, that way we can elminate people like Palin.

I really don't think she will be the candidate - that's not to say she won't support the effort.

 

[Evo]

I really don't think she will be the candidate - that's not to say she won't support the effort.

Do you think she'll detract? Ralph Nader is blamed for the loss of Gore in the election in 2000, not that that is a bad thing.

 

[Al68]

Was it a slip? Palin thought Africa was a country, among other nuggets gleaned from McCain's team of groomers after the election was lost.

I wonder if she thinks the U.S. has 57 states, too. Now that would be a real nugget, huh?

 

[WhoWee]

Do you think she'll detract? Ralph Nader is blamed for the loss of Gore in the election in 2000, not that that is a bad thing.

I think she can raise a great deal of money and help swing independent and Tea Party members. As long as she's not on the ticket - she should not detract. Obviously, whoever is on the ticket will need to be stronger than her (Indiana Governor?).

 

[Evo]

I wonder if she thinks the U.S. has 57 states, too. Now that would be a real nugget, huh?

LOL, I doubt she can name the states, much less count them.

 

[turbo]

It would have been tough for the media to study Palin. McCain's team did a very poor job vetting her before springing her on the country. Very shoddy.

By the time the media did a bit of digging and managed a couple of interviews, it was painfully evident that McCain and his team had really dropped the ball. The media could not have prevented Palin from being selected because they had no advance notice.

 

[WhoWee]

It would have been tough for the media to study Palin. McCain's team did a very poor job vetting her before springing her on the country. Very shoddy.

By the time the media did a bit of digging and managed a couple of interviews, it was painfully evident that McCain and his team had really dropped the ball. The media could not have prevented Palin from being selected because they had no advance notice.

Do you think they were thorough enough with candidate Obama?

 

[Al68]

LOL, I doubt she can name the states, much less count them.

LOL, I think you have that backward: Naming them all is far harder than just knowing how many there are. As far as I know, Palin hasn't been quite uneducated or stupid enough to get the latter wrong.

Gee, if mistaking Africa for a country is stupid/uneducated, what do you call someone in the U.S., or another country for that matter, how many states we have?

 

[CRGreathouse]

LOL, I doubt she can name the states, much less count them.

Are you being serious?

 

[Evo]

Are you being serious?

Very serious. And I'm not mistaken in my wording.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Very serious. And I'm not mistaken in my wording.

So you don't think that Palin can name the US states, and you're even more sure she couldn't count them?

I think I've lost respect for you, Evo. I don't know whether that's a misjudgement on your part, or simply a slander, but either way it reflects poorly on you. I'm not a fan of Palin, but it's clear that she could give the count of the US states as well as enumerate them, and I imagine she could name each.

 

[Office_Shredder]

I don't know, this is the same person who couldn't name a newspaper when put on the spot

 

[CAC1001]

I don't know how much of a religious person Palin is, I wouldn't care as long as she would keep that stuff to herself during a term as President and not bring it into policy. I don't know why Obama was so close to the Reverand Wright for so many years either, as long as he keeps whatever it was out of policymaking.

As for states, I think Palin knows there are 50 states, and I think she could name them just fine. On the bit about her not knowing Africa was a continent, was that ever substantiated? Because from what I had heard, that was just a rumor that came about, but there was no actual proof of it. On other issues, I would hope Palin the presidential candidate would be far more up-to-speed on things than Palin the VP nominee. That she fumbled questions such as what SCOTUS cases were most important to her or which major news publications she reads during the '08 election, I don't think these will matter as long as she shows herself to be much more up-to-speed on things.

I do not buy any of the arguments that the woman is an idiot. Remember political intelligence and policy knowledge are two different things.

Do you honestly think that Biden doesn't realize that Africa is a continent with lots of countries? I'm not going to be able to dig up a link to prove he knows something that most middle-schoolers could tell you.

I do remember he made the flub about FDR getting on the television to calm people about the 1929 stock market crash.

I truly believe we'd be talking about "President McCain" today if he had chosen a conservative politician for his running-mate.

How was Palin not conservative? I can fully understand the whole bit about her coming across as unqualified, but not conservative? What's your definition of her being conservative?

Especially one with a reputation for reaching across the aisle.

From my understanding, she did have a reputation for reaching across the aisle. That was one of the problems after the election. When she went back to Alaska, the coalition she had formed of Democrats and Republicans completely collapsed, as the Democratic party went on the attack to drive her out of office.

 

[Evo]

So you don't think that Palin can name the US states, and you're even more sure she couldn't count them?

I think I've lost respect for you, Evo. I don't know whether that's a misjudgement on your part, or simply a slander, but either way it reflects poorly on you. I'm not a fan of Palin, but it's clear that she could give the count of the US states as well as enumerate them, and I imagine she could name each.

Get her to name the states counting as she goes. How many do you think she'd get? I'll bet you she can't. Can you set up a test? She couldn't even name which newspaper she read.

And what's happened to her voice? The video I have of her from April sounds like her dentures fell out. What the heck? What happened, did she get her teeth knocked out?

 

[BobG]

Biden may have loose lips, but he's a policy geek and he's a whole lot smarter and better-educated than Palin. McCain screwed up big-time by picking Palin. It cost him the presidency.

I doubt that. McCain was trailing Obama until he picked Palin as VP. Within a week of picking Palin, he had surged into the lead. And then the financial crisis sent him plummeting even further behind than he'd been before he'd picked Palin. Palin definitely wound up not helping McCain, but I think McCain would have lost regardless of who his VP was.

2008 Presidential Election polls

It's hard to separate which hurt McCain worse: Palin's support evaporating or the financial crisis. It's hard to say a President's VP pick can do more than provide a temporary fluctuation in any event.

But the more people learned of Palin, the less qualified they thought she was: More 2008 campaign polls. Unfortunately, you have to scroll down a bit to get to the polls that include Palin, but in early Sep, 45% considered her qualified to step in as President and 46% considered her unqualified. That early vote of 'confidence' eroded to a 40%-55% split in little over a month.

In mid-Oct, 80% of people thought McCain had the right experience to be President, 76% thought Biden was qualified, 49% thought Obama was qualified, and 43% thought Palin was qualified. While Palin lost credibility quickly, she wasn't perceived that much worse than Obama in terms of experience. Just prior to the election, 67% felt Biden had the right qualities of a President, 65% thought Obama did, 62% thought McCain did, and 37% thought Palin did.

Palin hurt McCain's campaign in the long run, but McCain was losing before he picked her and he wound up losing after he picked her. The initial surge might suggest the election was winnable with the right VP candidate, but VP announcements rarely result in more than a short term surge. McCain's lead would have disappeared even with a good VP candidate. The best Palin would have done would be to help (or hurt) a tiny bit. The financial crisis (and McCain's initial reactions to it) hurt him more than Palin.

But she definitely didn't help him.

 

[WhoWee]

I doubt that. McCain was trailing Obama until he picked Palin as VP. Within a week of picking Palin, he had surged into the lead. And then the financial crisis sent him plummeting even further behind than he'd been before he'd picked Palin. Palin definitely wound up not helping McCain, but I think McCain would have lost regardless of who his VP was.

2008 Presidential Election polls

It's hard to separate which hurt McCain worse: Palin's support evaporating or the financial crisis. It's hard to say a President's VP pick can do more than provide a temporary fluctuation in any event.

But the more people learned of Palin, the less qualified they thought she was: More 2008 campaign polls. Unfortunately, you have to scroll down a bit to get to the polls that include Palin, but in early Sep, 45% considered her qualified to step in as President and 46% considered her unqualified. That early vote of 'confidence' eroded to a 40%-55% split in little over a month.

In mid-Oct, 80% of people thought McCain had the right experience to be President, 76% thought Biden was qualified, 49% thought Obama was qualified, and 43% thought Palin was qualified. While Palin lost credibility quickly, she wasn't perceived that much worse than Obama in terms of experience. Just prior to the election, 67% felt Biden had the right qualities of a President, 65% thought Obama did, 62% thought McCain did, and 37% thought Palin did.

Palin hurt McCain's campaign in the long run, but McCain was losing before he picked her and he wound up losing after he picked her. The initial surge might suggest the election was winnable with the right VP candidate, but VP announcements rarely result in more than a short term surge. McCain's lead would have disappeared even with a good VP candidate. The best Palin would have done would be to help (or hurt) a tiny bit. The financial crisis (and McCain's initial reactions to it) hurt him more than Palin.

But she definitely didn't help him.

Thanks for the 2008 overview of campaign polls link. It will be interesting to see how Obama polls against himself - that is candidate Obama 2008 vs Obama 2012. Somehow I don't think "Hopeful, Optimistic, and Proud" will carry the next election.

 

[CRGreathouse]

How was Palin not conservative? I can fully understand the whole bit about her coming across as unqualified, but not conservative? What's your definition of her being conservative?

turbo-1 has his own private definitions of "conservative", "fiscal conservative", "neocon", etc. I've been able to work some of them out roughly, but in general I just keep in mind that the 'usual' meanings aren't intended.

 

[WhoWee]

turbo-1 has his own private definitions of "conservative", "fiscal conservative", "neocon", etc. I've been able to work some of them out roughly, but in general I just keep in mind that the 'usual' meanings aren't intended.

I agree. Turbo might want to break down the differences between Lugar and Palin to help us along?

 

[BobG]

Lugar, McCain, Chuck Hagel, Lindsey Graham (among others) have general principles that they adhere to and they happen to belong to the Republican Party simply because they have more in common with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party. They lack party loyalty.

In today's climate, many politicians tend to be a Republican first and a conservative second (or a Democrat first and a liberal second, but we just happen to be talking about conservatives). Party loyalty trumps the views of the politician and of the voters that put the politician in office.

Senators always tend have more of a tendency to be the independent type. They're always more difficult to herd strictly by party lines.

A better example than contrasting Lugar and Palin would Tom DeLay's Republican House. For all the bad things one can say about him, he was incredibly adept at maintaining party discipline. Republicans won an inordinant amount of single vote victories when DeLay ran things. In other words, each Republican Representative could be called upon to vote the party line regardless of his private leanings or voter desires, but DeLay only called upon the minimum required to win a vote. That way, Republican Representatives didn't completely hose their chance of being re-elected by making too many votes their constituents would disagree with. It was incredibly effective, but questionable philosophically since the real job of Representatives is to represent the people of their district, not to promote the agenda of the Republican Party.

Of course, in DeLay's case, he went beyond simple vote counting and Republicans could be punished severely for damaging the party. Imagine being the Republican Chairman of the House Ethics Committee that admonished DeLay for Congressional improprieties. (Hefley was another conservative that aligned with the party closest to his beliefs vs being a Republican first and a conservative second.) DeLay lived up to his reputation as "The Hammer" and I guess one could arguably say his extreme measures made a vital contribution to his ability to herd enough votes together for Republican victories.

I'm not real sure how Palin would fit into either category.