How can I stay safe without my wife or dog by my side?

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The discussion centers on safety concerns after a member experienced a fall while walking their dog, Duke, prompting their spouse to insist on always carrying a working cell phone. There are worries about the member's health, particularly regarding fainting spells and a history of strokes, leading to calls for medical attention. Despite the member's reluctance due to severe allergies to fragrances, other participants stress the importance of seeking medical help to avoid serious health risks. The conversation highlights the challenges of managing health issues while dealing with sensitivities, and the need for a practical solution to ensure safety when alone. Overall, the consensus is that prioritizing health and seeking professional advice is crucial.
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I was taking Duke for a walk around our house, which he really enjoys because there is no collar or leash required. We got down to the back yard and I went down HARD. He went back up to the house, and my wife came out and helped me up and helped me back to the house.

She has issued a decree that I must always have a working cell-phone on me when I leave the house - no exceptions. Duke is a great second line of defense, but how can he help me when my wife is not home? She's also going to call on our doctor to get a waiver to let her leave work when I might be in trouble.

Getting old ain't for sissies.
 
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turbo said:
I was taking Duke for a walk around our house, which he really enjoys because there is no collar or leash required. We got down to the back yard and I went down HARD. He went back up to the house, and my wife came out and helped me up and helped me back to the house.

She has issued a decree that I must always have a working cell-phone on me when I leave the house - no exceptions. Duke is a great second line of defense, but how can he help me when my wife is not home? She's also going to call on our doctor to get a waiver to let her leave work when I might be in trouble.

Getting old ain't for sissies.
What part of your body is paralyzed? It's not funny turbo, my dad suffered two massive strokes, the first one paralyzed him on one side of his body, his face sagged on one side, his vocal cords paralyzed. The second one killed him. Maybe you started to faint. That's NOT a stroke!

Go to the doctor if you are having fainting spells, but do not claim it was a stroke.
 
Go see a doctor. This is NOT a joke.
 
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I hope you get the help you need turbo! We care about you here!
 
I sure hope that Evo's right. Better get a good check up, Turbo. All the best.
 
I'm so sorry to hear this turbo. I wish I could do something. :cry:
 
Taking stock today, I have lost a bit more of my steadiness when walking. On the up-side, the pain/burning in my right foot has moderated a bit.
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
So you've made a doc appt right?

Yeah Turbo; quit f#%&ng around. See a doctor even if it means your allergies getting all messed up. You don't want to get Darwin award right?

Good luck,
Casey
 
  • #10
That's not good. :frown: We care about you turbo, you need to see the doctor. Duke is a great buddy, but your wife is right about having a phone. Hope you take good care of yourself.
 
  • #11
I'm sorry to hear that, Turbo. Do take good care.
 
  • #12
I'm hanging in there. If I go see a doctor, he and his staff will have me sick for days with respiratory distress, migraines, flared-up arthritis, etc. Then, as doctors like to do, he will want me to go to the hospital to have unspecified "tests" done, exposing me to lots of other people wearing fragrances. People in the medical industry have no idea what "fragrance-free" means. None.
 
  • #13
turbo said:
I'm hanging in there. If I go see a doctor, he and his staff will have me sick for days with respiratory distress, migraines, flared-up arthritis, etc. Then, as doctors like to do, he will want me to go to the hospital to have unspecified "tests" done, exposing me to lots of other people wearing fragrances. People in the medical industry have no idea what "fragrance-free" means. None.
Fragrances won't kill you, but blood clots will. No sympathy for you if you won't get treatment.
 
  • #14
Turbo,

I was doing a drive by and saw the thread, distress flags went up, quit being so damn stubborn and drag your raggedly *** into the Dr's office and get tests, make sure your clotting factor is not screwed up. My neighbor's was and lucky for him it was a small clot in his chest and not his BRAIN ! He is on meds after being monitored and is doing fine. Don't make me drive up to NH and hurt you, do the right thing for Duke and your lady.

Rhody... :redface:
 
  • #15
Why are you doing this to us, turbo?? You make us worried and concerned, but you refuse to do anything about it. What are you trying to accomplish?
 
  • #16
I understand Turbo's point. (MM, Turbo is hyper allergic) It's tough. You need a doc come to visit you, au natural completely. Maybe the old boys network can help?

All the best Turbo, Hang in there.
 
  • #17
Andre said:
I understand Turbo's point. (MM, Turbo is hyper allergic) It's tough. You need a doc come to visit you, au natural completely. Maybe the old boys network can help?

All the best Turbo, Hang in there.

You understand the point that you would rather be paralyzed and killed by a stroke than to smell perfume?? To my knowledge, there have been no reported deaths due to smelling fragrances. There have been deaths due to stroke though. I'm sorry, but I am not seeing the point.
 
  • #18
Regardless, what is the difficulty in getting a home visit from a doc? Money? Don't make me start a turbo fund on PF! :) But I assume at some point turbo will need a scan in which he will need to go to a hospital.
 
  • #19
Anyway, let's not hijack this thread by discussing whether perfumes can or cannot be deadly. The main point is that he needs to see a doctor, fast.
 
  • #20
Turbo get well soon. May you have many blessings and warm wishes for your health
- root :smile:

P.S. Micro and others, are these bickerings necessary? I don't believe turbo opened this thread to seek for your medical advices and such. But, I also hope he gets the required attention.
 
  • #21
rootX said:
P.S. Micro and others, are these bickerings necessary? I don't believe turbo opened this thread to seek for your medical advices and such. But, I also hope he gets the required attention.

You're right. I'm sorry. I just want him to see a doctor.
 
  • #22
Can't he wear a breathing mask so he doesn't smell any fragrances?
 
  • #23
micromass said:
You're right. I'm sorry. I just want him to see a doctor.
I can understand your feelings and I'm sure turbo does also.
 
  • #24
Hi Turbo, you've got to go to the doc.

I hope everything's ok, and that you're feeling better. Get well soon Turbo.
 
  • #25
Good news for turbo, just smelling perfume cannot kill you.

http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/Reactions-to-perfumes.aspx
 
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  • #26
Turbo has presented his case before the people. While precidence would dictate that a grant for invocation of the constitutional right of the individual to consider his/her choices and act upon them accordingly would be applicable in this instance, the tribunal has withdrawn said application, for two reasons:
i. the attempt to deflect concern for and of himself to that of fragrance enhanced individuals,
ii. the plaintiff is being as stubborn as a mule.

The PF Tribunal has unanmiously rendered its verdict.
DOCTOR.

( PS. Duke is worried too )
 
  • #27
256bits said:
( PS. Duke is worried too )

That just may do the trick. Turbo?
 
  • #28
There is an organization dedicated to raising awareness of this issue. They're headquartered in Maine!

http://www.chemicalsensitivityfoundation.org/index.html

There are doctors on their board, even.

Turbo, you need to contact this organization and tell them what you need. Don't delay, this resource is available to you - use it.
 
  • #29
lisab said:
There is an organization dedicated to raising awareness of this issue. They're headquartered in Maine!

http://www.chemicalsensitivityfoundation.org/index.html

There are doctors on their board, even.

Turbo, you need to contact this organization and tell them what you need. Don't delay, this resource is available to you - use it.
Unfortunately that is not a valid medical site.

I am afraid that MCS is not recognized as an illness by the medical community. We do not want to promote non-mainstream sites here.

MCS is a controversial diagnosis and is not recognized as an organic, chemical-caused illness by the American Medical Association or other authorities.[1] Blinded clinical trials have shown MCS patients react as often and as strongly to placebos, including clean air,[2][3] as they do to the chemicals they say harm them. This has led some experts to believe MCS symptoms are due to odor hypersensitivity[4] or are mainly psychological.

The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD), maintained by the World Health Organization, does not recognize multiple chemical sensitivity or environmental sensitivity as a valid diagnosis.[13]

The American Medical Association (AMA) has stated that because of the lack of scientific evidence, based on well-controlled clinical trials, that supports a cause-and-effect relationship between exposure to very low levels of chemicals and the myriad symptoms reported by clinical ecologists, MCS is not recognized as an established organic disease. The American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology, the California Medical Association, the American College of Physicians, and the International Society of Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology also do not recognise it.
[1][14][15] In 1994, the AMA, American Lung Association, US EPA and US Consumer Product Safety Commission published a booklet on indoor air pollution that discusses MCS, among other issues. Although sometimes misrepresented as evidence these groups recognize MCS as a specific disease, the booklet states a pathogenesis of MCS has not been definitively proven. The booklet further states symptoms that have been self-diagnosed by a patient as related to MCS could actually be related to allergies or have a psychological basis.

Ronald E. Gots, M.D., an environmental toxicologist and frequent defense consultant in toxic tort litigation,[17] describes MCS as "a label given to people who do not feel well for a variety of reasons and who share the common belief that chemical sensitivities are to blame. ... It has no consistent characteristics, no uniform cause, no objective or measurable features. It exists because a patient believes it does and a doctor validates that belief."[18] In editorial in the Journal of Toxicology - Clinical Toxicology Gots wrote, "The phenomenon of multiple chemical sensitivities is a peculiar manifestation of our technophobic and chemophobic society. ... It may be the only ailment in existence in which the patient defines both the cause and the manifestations of his own condition."[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_chemical_sensitivity
 
  • #30
Historically it takes a long time for illnesses to become recognized, so be careful with conclusions as they are presented in the Wikipedia article.

I live with someone with chemical sensitivity and allergies, so yes I've seen the debilitating effect it can have. I think the following page gives a more balanced account: http://ohioline.osu.edu/cd-fact/pdf/0192.pdf

Do weight up the effects of your sensitivities to the effects of another stroke! The people are right that medical attention is needed Turbo. I hope you'll recover soon.
 
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  • #31
Thanks all. Monique, if you have the awareness and pro-active attitude that my wife does, you are far more valuable than a doctor. I spent hours and hours consulting with the best chemical-injury specialist in the northeast US (driving from central ME to Dartmouth and back took all day) and he gave up. He said "don't get near fragrance chemicals" essentially. Unfortunately, they are ubiquitous.
 
  • #32
Regardless of that problem, it's still essential to have a good medical diagnosis somehow. Whatever it may be, it may be well treatable, so we must find workaround that issue.
 
  • #33
So how are you feeling today turbo?
 
  • #34
I have returned to taking daily doses of "baby" aspirin, and hopefully that will help.

After my first stroke (many years ago) aides and attendants, etc kept coming into my room wearing fragrances. I asked the doctor to release me, and he said that he would if I could self-inject Heparin. I said that I could, though I had never stuck a needle in myself before. Did a sub-cu injection of Heparin, and he signed me out. Got a big box of pre-loaded syringes and a plastic disposal bucket. Probably for less than the price of another day in the the medical "hotel". At the end of that series of injections, there was hardly a place on my abdomen that was not black or blue, but at least I was at home and I could breathe and could sleep at night.
 
  • #35
dlgoff said:
So how are you feeling today turbo?
Much like yesterday. I have a bit less ability to sense joint position in my legs (which affects balance) but my right foot doesn't burn as much. The neurologist that treated me after the first stroke tried a lot of drugs, but none seemed to help. She prescribed Marinol, which helped a bit. When I asked her what could make the pain in my right foot go away, she said "It will never go away." The damage is in my brain-stem, and she said that even if my leg was cut off, I would still feel "pain" there for the rest of my life. That's OK. I have lived with it for about 20 years, and this latest stroke has reduced that pain a bit.
 
  • #36
turbo said:
Thanks all. Monique, if you have the awareness and pro-active attitude that my wife does, you are far more valuable than a doctor. I spent hours and hours consulting with the best chemical-injury specialist in the northeast US (driving from central ME to Dartmouth and back took all day) and he gave up. He said "don't get near fragrance chemicals" essentially. Unfortunately, they are ubiquitous.
We do work out what is tolerated and not. Everything I have in the house is of a certain brand and that's what I stick to. Not everything needs to be fragrance free though, it depends on the composition of the product.

Due to your complete fragrance-free environment you probably are extra-sensitive to the smell of fragrances (lack of neural/sensory adaptation). Even the the slightest waft will appear to be an assault on your senses?

However, how does your wife feel about the matter? Does the risk of a massive stroke outweigh the respiratory/immune problems that might arise after a doctor's visit? Isn't there a doctor able to make a house visit?
 
  • #37
Sorry to hear about your problems, maybe you could utilize a high-end respirator to help alleviate respiratory distress during your visit to a hospital? (assuming of course they are metal-free and/or you don't need an MRI). All available on Amazon Prime with free 2-day shipping, or $4.99 overnight!

Edit: Overview of allergy masks from achooallergy.com: http://www.achooallergy.com/allergy-asthma-mask-buying-guide.asp

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004Z4EB/?tag=pfamazon01-20
318eK-C4WgL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FTEDMM/?tag=pfamazon01-20
41SBXG9M7DL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009363G/?tag=pfamazon01-20
41NB1ZW0HRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


(tee hee)
315N6NKNSQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 
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  • #38
Monique said:
Historically it takes a long time for illnesses to become recognized, so be careful with conclusions as they are presented in the Wikipedia article.
The wiki article doesn't make assumptions, it's quoting verbatim the results of the peer reviewed studies themselves.

Unfortunately, the flyer you posted was not valid medical information, it was a compilation of blurbs from non-medical, non-peer reviewed, special interest sites, as is indicated by their list of "sources".

Turbo is not at risk of harm from "fragrance" he smells, He might find the odors unpleasant, and can even cause some irritation. They are painting the apartment next door and the smell is so strong that it made my eyes water and my throat sore. However, a bit of discomfort from annoying smells will not harm him, but his refusal to see a doctor will.

Turbo needs to see a doctor, and the recommendation for people that claim MCS is for them to deal with their anxiety and get back out in public. Avoiding exposure is the exact opposite of what he should do.

The patient should be encouraged to work and to socialize despite the symptoms. The major disability from MCS is often the isolation and withdrawal experienced as the patient seeks to avoid chemical exposures. Yet there is no evidence that such avoidance is effective or that continued exposure leads to any adverse biologic effects. Therefore, the physician should not encourage the patient to avoid low-dose exposure to a variety of chemicals. Indeed, according to Sparks and associates,23 “[a] recommendation for long-term avoidance of chemical exposures is contraindicated. It is also impossible to accomplish.”

The patient should be encouraged to increase activity gradually, while keeping anxiety or other symptoms at tolerable levels. This can be accomplished by following a systematic plan of behavioral treatment, desensitizing the patient to the distress experienced in symptom-producing situations. Relaxation or breath-control exercises may be helpful, as well as teaching the patient that autonomic symptoms of arousal, such as palpitations and tremor, are not dangerous and that activity can persist despite their occurrence.27,28

http://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0901/p721.html
 
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  • #39
Evo said:
... his refusal to see a doctor will.

+1, I don't know about the odor thing, but solutions for that have been suggested in this thread.
 
  • #40
Evo said:
Turbo is not at risk of harm from "fragrance" he smells, He might find the odors unpleasant, and can even cause some irritation. They are painting the apartment next door and the smell is so strong that it made my eyes water and my throat sore. However, a bit of discomfort from annoying smells will not harm him, but his refusal to see a doctor will.
That's exactly the same patronizing remark that I hear often, with all respect: it is ignorant. Look up asthma, COPD etc. irritants to the lungs are a real problem.
 
  • #41
Monique said:
That's exactly the same patronizing remark that I hear often, with all respect: it is ignorant. Look up asthma, COPD etc. irritants to the lungs are a real problem.
Did you read the "sources"? One is some woman's crackpot site that promotes alternative medicine. You know that is against the rules.

We're not talking about direct exposure to chemicals or even strong airborne chemical fumes. MCS is about low levels of indirect exposure, such as smelling another person's underarm deodorant. People that have "MCS" become extremely agitated by certain smells, even though there is nothing in the smell that can physically harm them. There just simply is not a high enough concentration in the surrounding air.

The only way to help turbo is to point him to valid medical research on MCS that shows he is not going to be harmed, and that there are things he can do to help him overcome his fears and get back to living life again. Feeding his fears is only going to hurt him in the long run. I actually care that he has become so fearful that he is willing to risk his life.
 
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  • #42
MCS is "real" insofar as he experiences it, but for this specific case it doesn't actually matter if it is psychological or physical (this isn't about how to treat MCS, it is about whether to treat a stroke), so there is no need to continue to argue about it. What matters, you two basically agree on:
Monique said:
Do weight up the effects of your sensitivities to the effects of another stroke! The people are right that medical attention is needed Turbo.
Evo said:
...a bit of discomfort from annoying smells will not harm him, but his refusal to see a doctor will.
 
  • #43
Turbo, why don't you get a doctor to do a home visit. Following that you will have to go to the hospital as you have done before. You will have to endure the fragrances and self medicate on hephrin again.

But there is always discomfort in procedures at the hospital but they must be endured for the greater good. Two words of advice, buck up.
 
  • #44
Turbo At some point you will have to see a doctor. I would recommend this more simple mask. It is made specifically for people who are odor hyper sensitive. Just keep a couple around , like they say: "it couldn't hurt".

http://www.ei-resource.org/allergy-&-mcs-related-products/allergy%10mcs-face-masks/respro-aero-mask/

There are also activated carbon masks now available at Hardware stores.

Whether MCS has a psychosomatic origin or not is irrelevant because the effects it has on a person are real. A migraine is still a migraine.

I have followed this thread with interest because I volunteer at the VA hospital and I see a lot of Gulf war vets with MCS. The VA hasn't been able to define MCS either.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10903552
 
  • #45
Sorry, edward. It is not that simple. I am not sensitive to odors - I have severe reactions to fragrance chemicals, especially "masking fragrances" that I cannot smell, since they block your ability to smell. Lots of "unscented" cosmetics contain masking fragrances and they are deadly. I can't smell them and have no ability to avoid them. I spent most of a winter afternoon out on the front deck after my wife opened a bottle of "unscented Oil of Olay" and started rubbing it on her hands. She had to go back inside and open all the windows.

I don't hate the smell of perfumes. Not a bit. MCS is not about that. I love going out and smelling the flowers, shrubs, trees, etc. The difference is that those smells are not made in labs with volatile organic compounds. Our whole front lawn has been taken over by flowering perennials since my wife got the gardening bug, and I love the scents. It's so nice when the apple, peach, and cherry trees are blooming.
 
  • #46
Hey turbo, I'm in Massanutten, VA, just a bit south of you along the Appalachian trail. What a bummer to hear the difficult choice you face. In my opinion, you should get on the phone with a doctor and explain both of your problems. If you can document your problem with perfume you may find one who will take it seriously enough to take proper precautions. I'm in no position to tell you what to do, but keeping a stroke secret from the doctors does not seem like the right path. All the best to you and your family.
 
  • #47
Our doctor knows about my recent stroke, since my wife had to visit him to get a permission-sheet signed so she could take time off from work as-needed. She came back home from work early yesterday after spending the morning crying and shaking, and she stayed home today.
 
  • #48
turbo said:
Sorry, edward. It is not that simple. I am not sensitive to odors - I have severe reactions to fragrance chemicals, especially "masking fragrances" that I cannot smell, since they block your ability to smell. Lots of "unscented" cosmetics contain masking fragrances and they are deadly. I can't smell them and have no ability to avoid them. I spent most of a winter afternoon out on the front deck after my wife opened a bottle of "unscented Oil of Olay" and started rubbing it on her hands. She had to go back inside and open all the windows.

I don't hate the smell of perfumes. Not a bit. MCS is not about that. I love going out and smelling the flowers, shrubs, trees, etc. The difference is that those smells are not made in labs with volatile organic compounds. Our whole front lawn has been taken over by flowering perennials since my wife got the gardening bug, and I love the scents. It's so nice when the apple, peach, and cherry trees are blooming.

Sorry I shouldn't have used the term odors. The website stated that the mask would remove:
The chemicals and particles that induce these conditions are not rare, but found in everyday items in everyday environments. Cleaning agents, perfumes, soap, paint, varnish, air fresheners, shaving cream, hand lotion, fabric softener all contain common chemicals that can have an effect on an individual with a chemical sensitivity.
 
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  • #49
edward said:
Whether MCS has a psychosomatic origin or not is irrelevant because the effects it has on a person are real. A migraine is still a migraine.

Just for the record, migraines are not psychosomatic. Both migraines and seizures can be triggered by emotional stress because they are disorders of the threshold of neuronal firing. The affected neurons of people with seizures and migraine fire with less provocation than in healthy people. Emotional stress increases general neuronal firing, which can set the hypersensitive neurons off. This is why you find migraineurs having migraines right when they don't need them, as before job interviews, or any situation where anyone's stress levels would be elevated.
 
  • #50
turbo said:
I don't hate the smell of perfumes. Not a bit. MCS is not about that. I love going out and smelling the flowers, shrubs, trees, etc. The difference is that those smells are not made in labs with volatile organic compounds. Our whole front lawn has been taken over by flowering perennials since my wife got the gardening bug, and I love the scents. It's so nice when the apple, peach, and cherry trees are blooming.

I see interesting business opportunity :cool:
 

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