Weinberg Vol 1: Understanding Index Arrangement in (2.4.8) LT Transformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the arrangement of indices in the Lorentz transformation equations as presented in Weinberg's Volume 1, specifically transitioning from equation (2.4.7) to (2.4.8). Participants explore the implications of index placement and the rules governing matrix multiplication in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the indices on the Lorentz transformation (LT) are arranged with mu as the first lower index and rho as the second upper index, suggesting that other arrangements might be possible.
  • Another participant provides a detailed breakdown of the components involved in the matrices and how they relate to the indices, illustrating the process of evaluating the expression from (2.4.7).
  • There is a query about whether it would be valid to rearrange the indices in a specific expression differently, with a follow-up confirming that such rearrangement does not yield correct results.
  • A participant reflects on their experience with notation, questioning whether familiarity with index manipulation improves over time, and shares their preference for index-free notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the flexibility of index arrangement and whether certain manipulations are valid. There is no consensus on the best approach to index notation, as opinions vary on comfort and preference.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific matrix components and operations, indicating a reliance on definitions and properties of matrix multiplication. The discussion highlights the complexity of index manipulation and the potential for confusion in notation.

shehry1
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Can anyone explain to me why in going from (2.4.7) to (2.4.8) the indices on the LT are arranged in the way they are. Why is mu the first index (lower) and rho the second (upper)?

Could they have been arranged in any other way? From the rules that I know, they can.
 
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Recall that the components on row \mu, column \nu of the matrices

\Lambda, \Lambda^T, \eta, \eta^{-1}, \omega

are written as

\Lambda^\mu{}_\nu, \Lambda^\nu{}_\mu, \eta_{\mu\nu}, \eta^{\mu\nu}, \omega^\mu{}_\nu

and that \eta^{-1} and \eta and used to raise and lower indices. The components of \Lambda^{-1} are

(\Lambda^{-1})^\mu{}_\nu=(\eta^{-1}\Lambda^T\eta)^\mu{}_\nu=\eta^{\mu\rho}\Lambda^\sigma{}_\rho\eta_{\sigma\nu}=\Lambda_\nu{}^\mu.

Let's use all of the above to evaluate the first term on the right-hand side of (2.4.7).

(\Lambda\omega\Lambda^{-1})_{\mu\nu}=\eta_{\mu\rho}(\Lambda\omega\Lambda^{-1})^\rho{}_\nu =\eta_{\mu\rho}\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\omega^\sigma{}_\lambda(\Lambda^{-1})^\lambda{}_\nu =\Lambda_{\mu\sigma}\omega^\sigma{}_\lambda\Lambda_\nu{}^\lambda=\Lambda_{\mu\rho}\delta^\rho_\kappa\omega^\kappa{}_\lambda\Lambda_\nu{}^\lambda

=\Lambda_{\mu\rho}\eta^{\rho\tau}\eta_{\tau\kappa}\omega^\kappa{}_\lambda\Lambda_\nu{}^\lambda =\Lambda_\mu{}^\tau\omega_{\tau\lambda}\Lambda_\nu{}^\lambda
 
Thanks a lot. Now I have just two short questions:

(1) In the last expression with the string of equalities, could you have expanded the bracket differently. Meaning that instead of \eta_{\mu\rho}\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\omega^\sigma{ }_\lambda(\Lambda^{-1})^\lambda{}_\nu , would it had been correct to put that rho on the Lambda inverse and the nu on the Lambda? I tried it and it didn't turn out correct.

(2) After posting nearly 2300 messages, does one become more natural at the notation (like adding or subtracting integers) or do you still have to think about all the indices. :)
 
shehry1 said:
(1) In the last expression with the string of equalities, could you have expanded the bracket differently. Meaning that instead of \eta_{\mu\rho}\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\omega^\sigma{ }_\lambda(\Lambda^{-1})^\lambda{}_\nu , would it had been correct to put that rho on the Lambda inverse and the nu on the Lambda? I tried it and it didn't turn out correct.
That doesn't work. Note that the only thing I'm using in this step is the definition of matrix multiplication:

(\Lambda\omega\Lambda^{-1})^\rho{}_\nu =\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\omega^\sigma{ }_\lambda(\Lambda^{-1})^\lambda{}_\nu

shehry1 said:
(2) After posting nearly 2300 messages, does one become more natural at the notation (like adding or subtracting integers) or do you still have to think about all the indices. :)
I still have to think about it. Probably took half an hour to remind myself about the things I needed to know before the actual calculation seemed trivial. Once I had written down the first equality in the last two lines (and knew why I was doing it), the rest was like adding integers. I try to avoid this notation when I can. I prefer an index free notation (e.g. \mbox{Tr}(AB) instead of A^i{}_j B^j{}_i), and my second choice is to write all the indices downstairs (Example).
 

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