CAC records for Obama not released yet

[isly ilwott]

The University of Illinois refuses to make public some papers that describe Barack Obama's work with Bill Ayers. Why would they do this?

This is similar to Hillary Rodham Clinton's refusal to release some paper she wrote long ago.

What does Obama have to hide?


http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/barack_obama_records_sealed_at.html

 

[WarPhalange]

Looks like it's the University refusing to release the papers.

You really go out of your way to paint Obama as a bad guy, don't you?

 

[cristo]

The University of Illinois refuses to make public some papers that describe Barack Obama's work with Bill Ayers. Why would they do this?

From the article: "The university's Chicago campus maintains that the donor of the records that document the work of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge has not handed over ownership rights."

 

[turbo]

To the OP: You are insinuating that Obama not only has something to hide, but is complicit in covering it up. If you will read the article you linked, the University is aggressively pursuing an agreement with the person who donated the papers, so that they can release them.

The GOP is attempting to tie Obama's tenuous connection to Ayers from 1995 to Ayer's 1960's political views, and that is pretty pathetic. It's tough to imagine how a mixed-race kid just a few years old could be tied to the Weathermen. The right-wing is playing off the ignorance of people who are gullible enough to see a "connection".

 

[Evo]

From the article: "The university's Chicago campus maintains that the donor of the records that document the work of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge has not handed over ownership rights."

I thought these were supposed to be public.

http://www.annenberginstitute.org/challenge/pubs/researchreport/appendix.pdf

So exactly what part of the reports would be withheld? Who is the mystery person that has stepped in and refused to release these particular papers? If there is nothing bad in them, then they should be released so as not to harm Obama, because right now they are casting doubt on him. Is Obama pushing for the release?

 

[Astronuc]

Records can be donated for research, and sometimes with restrictions that they not appear in the public domain. This would be the case if someone was planning to use such records in the future, possibly for publication for profit. It appears to be nothing more than a legal matter, not something to hide.

 

[isly ilwott]

Looks like it's the University refusing to release the papers.

You really go out of your way to paint Obama as a bad guy, don't you?

I don't have to go out of my way at all. Things like this pop up from time to time when Presidential elections come along.

He (BO) puts himself in a bad light with his continued friendship with Bill Ayers. (Just as he did with his continued participation in Jerimiah Wright's congregation...listening to his racist spiritual leader and mentor/friend curse the United States.) He has not ceased to be friends with him (Ayers) and I think still serves on some meaningless board with him. He refuses to talk about Ayers in public and has not renounced him. Ayers, BTW has not shown remorse for what he did either. I believe he has even said that he didn't set off enough bombs.

How can you ignore the relationship between a terrorist like Ayers and a Presidential candidate?

To the OP: You are insinuating that Obama not only has something to hide, but is complicit in covering it up. If you will read the article you linked, the University is aggressively pursuing an agreement with the person who donated the papers, so that they can release them.

...and I'm sure they will eventually be released...after the election...and highly redacted.

The GOP is attempting to tie Obama's tenuous connection to Ayers from 1995 to Ayer's 1960's political views, and that is pretty pathetic. It's tough to imagine how a mixed-race kid just a few years old could be tied to the Weathermen. The right-wing is playing off the ignorance of people who are gullible enough to see a "connection".

Obama's connection and friendship to Ayers has not ended.

 

[turbo]

You just don't get it. Ayers was a radical when Obama was a young child. Obama ended up chairing a foundation with a large private endowment starting in 1995. The fact that Ayers was instrumental in creating that foundation and was instrumental in pushing educational reforms are positive things. Obama did not help Ayers make a bomb - he helped guide money from a charitable endowment into end-uses designed to improve the educational system.

The smears are all over the right-wing blogoshere. Funny thing, though - there's no mention of the good work done by the foundation - only breathless claims that make it look like Ayers and Obama are joined at the hip.

 

[Evo]

The controversy surrounding Obama's involvement with the CAC could be an issue.

This study examined whether the Chicago Annenberg Challenge promoted improvement in schools it supported and in student achievement and other outcomes; factors that might explain improvement or lack thereof among Annenberg schools; and what could be learned from the Challenge's experiences. It highlighted the period between 1996-1997 through 2000-2001. Results suggest that among the schools it supported, the Challenge had little impact on school improvement and student outcomes, with no statistically significant differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain, classroom behavior, student self-efficacy, and social competence.

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPorta...&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED482425

More background http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge

 

[Art]

You just don't get it. .

He probably does get it, I suspect he's just hoping others won't

 

[isly ilwott]

You just don't get it. Ayers was a radical when Obama was a young child. Obama ended up chairing a foundation with a large private endowment starting in 1995. The fact that Ayers was instrumental in creating that foundation and was instrumental in pushing educational reforms are positive things. Obama did not help Ayers make a bomb - he helped guide money from a charitable endowment into end-uses designed to improve the educational system.

The smears are all over the right-wing blogoshere. Funny thing, though - there's no mention of the good work done by the foundation - only breathless claims that make it look like Ayers and Obama are joined at the hip.

Of course I get it. I get it just like Hillary got it when she answered GS in this debate record.

Edit by Evo: removed link to inappropriate website.

Read the last few lines of that article and you'll realize that he is the least investigated candidate ever to become America's Idol.

You can confidently bet your last dollar that more scrutiny will follow.

 

[WarPhalange]

I hope so. But I'm also hoping it's actual scrutiny, not things like "ZOMG HE'S A SECRET MUSLIM!", "HE WANTS TO LOSE THE WAR IN IRAQ SO HE CAN WIN THE ELECTION!", and "HE HANGS OUT WITH TERRORISTS! HE HATES AMERICA!"

Please, that's just pathetic.

 

[turbo]

I hope so. But I'm also hoping it's actual scrutiny, not things like "ZOMG HE'S A SECRET MUSLIM!", "HE WANTS TO LOSE THE WAR IN IRAQ SO HE CAN WIN THE ELECTION!", and "HE HANGS OUT WITH TERRORISTS! HE HATES AMERICA!"

Please, that's just pathetic.

That's the level of intellectual discourse on the right-wing sites, though. They'll drum on this and paint Obama as a dear friend of an unrepentant terrorist (the currently popular theme) until the university manages to get control of the papers, and nothing untoward shows up. That won't matter to the right - they will have had days or weeks to breathlessly speculate on the contents of the papers and whip up a frenzy amongst those who view politics as a blood-sport.

As mentioned by Astronuc, archives can be donated with some significant strings attached. I have been involved with museums that had to agree to allow material to be viewed on-site only, or only by scholars with credentials relevant to the materials, etc, etc. If a museum violates such conditions or archives the materials such that they are not available for the use(s) specified by the donor, the materials might be reclaimed by the donor. We have no idea what conditions the donor placed on this archive apart from the concern that salaries, SSI numbers, etc might be disclosed against the wishes of the donor. This will play out - it's best if the university puts the effort in high gear and releases the materials promptly.

 

[Astronuc]

The controversy surrounding Obama's involvement with the CAC could be an issue.

What controversy?

From the http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal...accno=ED482425

The study also examined trends in school improvement among a small group of "Breakthrough Schools," which received special financial and professional support from the Challenge between 1990-2001, a time during which the Challenge began withdrawing funds from the other Annenberg schools. Overall, Breakthrough schools began to develop in ways that distinguished them from other Annenberg schools and sustained or strengthened aspects of teacher professional community, school leadership, and relational trust while other Annenberg schools did not. Factors distinguishing strong and weak schools included cultivation of strong, distributive leadership and use of an array of complementary, reinforcing strategies.

Education can be hit or miss. One cannot control the student population or improve their environment - homes and neighborhoods.

According to the Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge ),

At its founding, the Annenberg Challenge was made up of three constituent parts:

• The Chicago School Reform Collaborative, co-chaired by William C. Ayers;
• a Board of Directors initially recruited by the Collaborative, which was chaired from 1995 to 2000 by Barack Obama, at the time a practicing attorney.
• The Chicago Schools Research Consortium, a research arm of the Challenge.

That report is available to the public.
http://ccsr.uchicago.edu/content/publications.php?pub_id=60

http://www.annenberginstitute.org/challenge/sites/chicago.html


So Obama chaired the Board of Directors of a school reform effort, at which time, he was a practicing attorney.

Chicago has always has problems with education. For that matter, every major city in the US has problems with education. It seems to be one area where both democrats and republicans fail spectacularly at the local, state and federal level - and have done so for as long as I've been in the US and probably longer.

 

[Evo]

That report is available to the public.
http://ccsr.uchicago.edu/content/publications.php?pub_id=60

http://www.annenberginstitute.org/challenge/sites/chicago.html

I posted that link in my first post #5.

Did you read it? In category after category

no statistically significant differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain, classroom behavior, student self-efficacy, and social competence.

Similarly there were virtually no statistically significant differences between Breakthrough and other Annenberg schools in these student outcomes.

In other words, it was a multi-million dollar failure and Obama was on the Board of Directors.

Just because I'm not voting for McCain (unless he makes a 180 degree turn on crtitical issues) doesn't mean I'm going to refuse to look at how successfully Obama ran programs he was in charge of. Maybe he was on the board in name only and actually had no responsibilities.

I'd still like an explanation of the huge amount of taxpayer's money Obama gave to Pfleger's church. Was Pfleger's church really the best choice, or was it because of Pfleger's affiliation with Rev Wright and donations to Obama? These are questions worth asking.

 

[Gokul43201]

I posted that link in my first post #5.

Did you read it? In category after category ...

The same report also says:

Overall, Breakthrough schools began to develop in ways that distinguished them from other Annenberg schools and sustained or strengthened aspects of teacher professional community, school leadership, and relational trust while other Annenberg schools did not.

If you go to the section on the Breakthrough schools, you find a table listing about a dozen metrics in which they outperformed the other schools.

In other words, it was a multi-million dollar failure and Obama was on the Board of Directors.

How much of that is directly his fault, and how much of the blame lies with management? How many Trillions of dollars have been spent on education programs in this country that produced nothing good?

In fact, the report you linked even says that the conventional wisdom from literature is that there are no short term fixes to education.

Just because I'm not voting for McCain (unless he makes a 180 degree turn on crtitical issues) doesn't mean I'm going to refuse to look at how successfully Obama ran programs he was in charge of.

I agree. Obama definitely deserves some flack for the poor performance of the CAC.

I'd still like an explanation of the huge amount of taxpayer's money Obama gave to Pfleger's church. Was Pfleger's church really the best choice, or was it because of Pfleger's affiliation with Rev Wright and donations to Obama? These are questions worth asking.

That's a completely unrelated question, though, isn't it? Obama earmarked $225,000 for St. Sabina programs and building repairs. That's the huge amount of money he sent to Pfleger's church. Incidentally, the things that Pfleger was spending money on included: outreach programs for prostitutes (for which he was shunned by the Catholic community), anti-drug campaigns, campaigns to reduce firearm violence and billboard drives protesting rappers that promote violence and disrespect for women.

 

[Evo]

The same report also says:
If you go to the section on the Breakthrough schools, you find a table listing about a dozen metrics in which they outperformed the other schools.

But, correct me if I am wrong, that was only for certain years, but the trend ended in almost every area in 2001. I will find that and update this, I'm on a commercial break.

How much of that is directly his fault, and how much of the blame lies with management? How many Trillions of dollars have been spent on education programs in this country that produced nothing good?

That's what I can't seem to find. How involved was he?

That's a completely unrelated question, though, isn't it? Obama earmarked $225,000 for St. Sabina programs and building repairs. That's the huge amount of money he sent to Pfleger's church. Incidentally, the things that Pfleger was spending money on included: outreach programs for prostitutes (for which he was shunned by the Catholic community), anti-drug campaigns, campaigns to reduce firearm violence and billboard drives protesting rappers that promote violence and disrespect for women.

Like I said, was Pfeleger's work more deserving that others? What criteria did Obama use in selecting Pfleger out of what must be many creditable charities.

Incidentally, what is the justification for the title of this thread? Where has the OP established that Obama is responsible for "hiding" the Annenberg records?

I agree, changed.

 

[Astronuc]

how successfully Obama ran programs he was in charge of

Well, certainly it is a critical factor as to how Obama ran programs of which he was in charge. But is the Chairman of the Board in charge of the program, or is oversight, or is it honorary, or does the Chairman function as one who has a strategic view.

We'd have to dig into the documents to see what the duties of the COB are.

Most CEO's don't run the company, but the CEO and board hire the President and other managers, who do run the company on a day to day business. The CEO strategize about the future.

How involved was he?

Now that certainly is a legitimate question for someone running for president of the country.

What criteria did Obama use in selecting Pfleger out of what must be many creditable charities.

Another good question. Could it simply have been location? Of course, we now know that Pfleger's rhetoric makes some people uncomfortable.



We don't even know what was donated or who the donor is. Does Obama know the donor? When Obama left the organization, didn't give up rights to access any records. Obama may have no control on any documents generated at the CAC. AFAIK, the program was funded by Annenberg foundation and corporation/business interests. Was taxpayer money spent on CAC?

 

[Evo]

AFAIK, the program was funded by Annenberg foundation and corporation/business interests. Was taxpayer money spent on CAC?

I don't know tax payer money was involved, but i don't see where the money for the initial grant came from.
From the wiki article

At times the attempt by the Challenge was controversial. An effort to funnel $2 million to the Local Schools Councils was criticized by one Challenge board member, Arnold Weber, a business sector representative and former President of Northwestern University, who saw the Councils as a potential "political threat" to school principals. Of course, the councils were formed precisely to provide parent and political activists with the power to influence schools. Board chairman Obama offered to meet with the Collaborative to resolve the concerns raised by Weber.

The Board would engage in fundraising and approval of grants. The Board also hired a Executive Director, Ken Rolling, from Woods Fund of Chicago.

The Research Consortium was responsible for assessing the impact of the expenditure of the Challenge's grant money. Ironically, they concluded that the $110 million spent in Chicago over six years had little or no impact on outcomes for students.

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge received a grant of $49.2 million from the national Annenberg Challenge based at Brown University. The grant was to be matched 2:1 by private donors. By 1999 the Chicago Challenge succeeded in raising an additional $60 million.

 

[isly ilwott]

Of course I get it. I get it just like Hillary got it when she answered GS in this debate record.

Edit by Evo: removed link to inappropriate website.

Read the last few lines of that article and you'll realize that he is the least investigated candidate ever to become America's Idol.

You can confidently bet your last dollar that more scrutiny will follow.

Evo,

Your PM box is full.

For my edification, what is inappropriate about the linked site?

 

[Evo]

Evo,

Your PM box is full.

For my edification, what is inappropriate about the linked site?

Only mainstream, non-biased, non hate-mongering sites are acceptable.

 

[WarPhalange]

Great, now you opened a can of worms.

 

[isly ilwott]

Only mainstream, non-biased, non hate-mongoring sites are acceptable.

Then it should be quite easy to supply a list of acceptable sites. Please do so.

 

[Gokul43201]

It's easy to provide a list of some of the acceptable sites (those of mainstream media outlets, like CNN, NBC, NYTimes, Tribune, Wash Post, Wall Street Journal, etc., those that reproduce news from these sources or Reuters, AP, etc., websites of Government Agencies, websites of reputed educational institutions and international organizations for instance), but impossible to provide a list of all acceptable sites. Some blogs or other sites may be permitted, on the discretion of the Mentors, so long as the article does not violate Forum Guidelines. Other pages may be permitted with caveats/warnings of the content. Questionable sources or articles that violate Guidelines can be rejected by the Mentor. If you are unhappy about the deletion, you may ask the Mentor for an explanation by PM. If you do not get satisfactory responses you can ask that the decision be reviewed by other Mentors.

 

[isly ilwott]

It's easy to provide a list of some of the acceptable sites (those of mainstream media outlets, like CNN, NBC, NYTimes, et.c or those that use news from Reuters or AP), but impossible to provide a list of all acceptable sites. Some blogs or other sites may be permitted, on the discretion of the Mentors, so long as the article does not violate Forum Guidelines. Other pages may be permitted with caveats/warnings of the content. Questionable sources or articles that violate Guidelines can be rejected by the Mentor. If you are unhappy about the deletion, you may ask the Mentor for an explanation by PM. If you do not get satisfactory responses you can ask that the decision be reviewed by other Mentors.

I am far from unhappy...just curious. I believe swamppolitics is part of the Chicago Tribune gang.

I tried to ask Evo about it in a PM but Evo's PM account is closed due to the fullness thereof.

I would have no problem with deletion of links to hate-mongering sites. It's the non-biased ones that will be hard to find.

Cheers!

 

[cristo]

I've merged this with your thread in feedback. In future, if a mentor's PM box is full, then feel free to report the appropriate post to have it looked at.

 

[Evo]

I believe swamppolitics is part of the Chicago Tribune gang.

It wasn't the link to swamppolitics that was removed, that link is still in your post.

I've moved this back here since I already answered here and I discuss thread edits within the thread so those that are following the thread understand what was done and why.

I was at the surgeon this morning and supposed to be at another right now, but can't get there.

If my pm box is full, feel free to report post, start a thread in feedback, post on my message board, or ask here, I am never gone for more than a half day.

And Isly, I put your post in the mentors forum at the time I deleted the link, it is not "deleted" for the mentors.

When an article has lines such as

That's where the issue sits as we head into the last lap in the Keystone State full of bitter, gun-toting, illegal-immigrant hating Jesus freaks.

and a large part of the article is copied and pasted from wikipedia, where the basic jist is trying to insinuate Obama has terrorist ties, it's not acceptable. And no, according to the website and who they claim they are affiliated with, they claim no affiliation with any mainstream news source.

 

[Oberst Villa]

I was at the surgeon this morning and supposed to be at another right now, but can't get there.

How is your arm ?

 

[Evo]

How is your arm ?

Not good, thanks for asking. One of the reasons my pm box is full (aside from being a pack rat).

 

[isly ilwott]

All is well.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog.2008/08/obamaayers_annenberg_papers_to.html

Of course we can be assured of full disclosure...

 

[turbo]

AP reports that the Annenberg papers will be released on Tuesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080822/ap_on_el_ge/obama_records_1