I want to build a particle accelerator

[guitarphysics]

Hi, I'm 15 and I want to build a particle accelerator (probably in my backyard). I don't know much about physics yet, but I'm learning. I realize that this is a long-term project (my estimate is about 2 years), but I really want to do it. I don't just want instructions or anything like that, I want to do experimental research (just for fun) and actually understand everything that I'm doing. What books do you think I should read? I'm reading an intro to basic electricity (I thought it would be helpful, or at the very least, interesting). Recommend as many books as you want (on basic engineering, electromagnetism, particle physics, classical mechanics, etc.), as I said, I'm giving this two years. Also, keep in mind that I don't know much yet, so I'm not sure what kind of accelerator I want to build or anything that specific. I'm also not sure what particles I want to study. Do you have any advice you can give me? Any books I have to read? About how much would it cost? Thanks very much, and if you need me to elaborate on anything, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[phinds]

This question comes up here about every month or so, I'd guess --- maybe a bit less often --- and as I recall, always ends in a locked thread because it is MUCH too dangerous an undertaking.

 

[guitarphysics]

I'm not asking for specific instructions on how to do it- I'm asking for help on which books to read and what to research so I can do this safely.

 

[Spinnor]

Since there is natural high energy particles all about why not build a particle detector? Less chance you will kill yourself or burn your parents house down. See,

http://www.imagesco.com/articles/geiger/build_your_own_geiger_counter.html

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#...04cd06e77866c7&bpcl=35277026&biw=1024&bih=517

 

[CrazyNeutrino]

You have to be crazy. It's a nice idea but you won't find any of the materials outside fermi lab and if you do, you'll probably blow up your neighborhood. Also this query should be in the quantum physics or standard model section.

 

[CrazyNeutrino]

And there are almost no book that tell you how to build particle accelerators !

 

[guitarphysics]

You could say I'm a little bit crazy, but I'm also very motivated. I'll make sure to take all the necessary safety precautions (I have OCD), and I think if I try hard enough, I'll be able to find the materials. I'm not sure how I'm going to get enough power, but I'll think about that part later. I'll do as much research as possible, and hopefully people here will be able to help me. The geiger counter idea was great spinnor, I'll definitely try that. And sorry about putting this in the wrong category, I'm kind of new here. I'm not really sure how to move it.

 

[guitarphysics]

And there are almost no book that tell you how to build particle accelerators !

I don't want books specifically telling me how to build accelerators, I want to learn about the different types of accelerators, about particles, about some engineering, electromagnetism, and as much as I can that will help me build one. I don't want an instruction manual, I want the tools to be able to make my own instruction manual, so to speak. Actually, now that I think about it, this project will most likely take longer than two years...

 

[qwertyuiop23]

Perhaps to help you out research the LHC. This is a large multi-national project that had a budget of 7.5 billion euros. Took many many years to build with large numbers of engineers. Now you probably won't want to go that big but to accelerate anything it usually needs to be small (more mass = much more energy to accelerate). Then you have to detect particles.

Without trying to be mean but the more you understand this 'project' the more you will find that it is quite unrealistic. Even by asking such a question (in such a forum) and the naivety of saying you want to complete it in 2 years shows how little you know.

Perhaps learning about electronics and build something like a buck converter that relies on simple electrical principles.

 

[guitarphysics]

Yeah, I realize that it may be unrealistic, but I would still like to try. I don't mean to sound stubborn or egotistical (although sometimes I am too much of both), but I really want to do this.

 

[Physicist50]

Hi, I'm 15 and I want to build a particle accelerator.

Don't mean to be mean or anything, but you'll have to know a lot about quantum physics to know how to use and understand (let alone build) a particle accelerator. I'm 11 and know quite a bit about physics, and I'd have no idea how to build - although I'd probably know roughly how to understand - a particle accelerator.

 

[mfb]

Every CRT tube is a small particle accelerator, and they can be built as hobby project - see this page, for example.

If we talk about higher energy, radio-frequency acceleration, proton accelerators and so on: Study physics, try to find some group which actually builds particle accelerators, join them.

 

[guitarphysics]

Just to give everyone an update- I know some basic concepts of electricity now, I have a pretty good base in circuits, and now I'm going to read some books on calculus. Also, I'm going to build a high-voltage geiger counter to go a little deeper into particle detection and circuitry. Any more advice or comments?

 

[CrazyNeutrino]

Dude if you want to build a particle accelerator then your going to have to know a lot on electricity, engineering, mechanics, waves, calculus(absolutely must. Don't use books, check out the khanacademy calc playlist at khanacademy.org, that's where I learned from what a derivative is to stokes theorem) also you need to know high energy particle physics and a lot of math.
In my opinion, if you have reached basic electromagnetism and don't know calculus then there's a very very long way to go. But to help you out you might want to check khanacademys math playlist and calculus; MITs classical mechanics, electricity and magnetism and waves courses; quantum physics and relativity and the standard model from stanford universities playlists. After learning all of this you would just need someone to help you out and guide you.

 

[Naty1]

guitar...

Building a real particle accelerator would require a team of expert people...


you might find this discussion of interest:

What is a particle:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=386051


Do you know what a vacuum tube is?? That accelerates electrons!

 

[suchal]

you should contact michio kaku. search for his email on bigthink.

 

[guitarphysics]

Crazyneutrino, that was very helpful. I am already watching the khan academy calculus videos, but I want a strong base in calculus so I am reading books as well. I will look for the Stanford and MIT videos that you mentioned. And yes, I do recognize that there's a long way to go, but I am patient, so that's no problem. Naty1, I don't know much, but I definitely know enough to know that a vacuum tube DOES NOT accelerate electrons...

 

[eehsun]

I am an undergraduate in electrical engineering, and I am fairly certain that they do..
(I admire your determination by the way)

 

[guitarphysics]

Really?! Wow. I always thought that vacuum tubes were just to eliminate air resistance and make sure that you were only accelerating certain particles. I thought particles were accelerated by magnetism and electricity... Evidently I barely know anything.

 

[Bobbywhy]

Naty1, I don't know much, but I definitely know enough to know that a vacuum tube DOES NOT accelerate electrons...

guitarphysics, I recommend that you not post such statements here (or anywhere else, for that matter). You have insulted Naty1 and demonstrated for everyone here your lack of understanding of the basics of electronics/physics.

I suggest you first click on "Naty1" here and select "view public profile". Then read the "about me" tab and notice that Naty1 has several degrees in Electrical engineering, including a Master's degree. Add to this his other degrees and experiences and then ask yourself this: "Why would Naty1 write "Vacuum tubes accelerate electrons"? The answer is simple: because they do.

Secondly, I suggest you go to Google search, enter the terms "vacuum tubes" and learn how they work.

Thirdly, please learn some humility when making comments to other members here. Arrogance and egocentricism are not personality traits that promote the exchange of information. Physics Forums is a place for learning. And, as you said yourself, "I don't know much,..."

Cheers,
Bobbywhy

 

[romsofia]

You'll need WAY more than 2 years if you don't even know calculus if you want to even understand particle physics, let alone build something to test hypotheses based in that field...

Instead of jumping the gun to the PhD level stuff, you should take it slow and attempt to build something simpler I.E. A lightbulb, study why it works, then build one. Move on from there.

 

[guitarphysics]

Naty1, I apologize. I have had a lot of bad experiences with trolls, and assumed that I was correct and you were simply trying to annoy me.

Thirdly, please learn some humility when making comments to other members here. Arrogance and egocentricism are not personality traits that promote the exchange of information. Physics Forums is a place for learning. And, as you said yourself, "I don't know much,..."

I was on a smartphone and did not know how to go to Naty1's profile (I didn't even know there was an about me tab). I wasn't being arrogant (at least I don't think so), I was just being unnecessarily curt and also wrong. Sorry to anyone else who I offended, that was not at all my intention.

 

[guitarphysics]

You'll need WAY more than 2 years if you don't even know calculus if you want to even understand particle physics, let alone build something to test hypotheses based in that field...

Instead of jumping the gun to the PhD level stuff, you should take it slow and attempt to build something simpler I.E. A lightbulb, study why it works, then build one. Move on from there.

Yes, after minimal research I have discovered that this is very unrealistic. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time, I will drop this project for now and take everything more slowly. I'll probably come back to this again in ten years or so and tell you if I've succeeded. See you all in other future threads. Thanks for your help.

 

[AlephZero]

Sorry to anyone else who I offended, that was not at all my intention.

Well, I took your comment to mean that you thought "a vacuum tube" was just "a tube with no air inside it", in whch case your physics was bascially right.

Nobody is BORN knowing all the jargon used in science, so you don't need to be apologetic about not knowing that "vacuum tube" usually means an electronic device, not just a vacuum inside a tube.

 

[Bipolarity]

Yes, after minimal research I have discovered that this is very unrealistic. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time, I will drop this project for now and take everything more slowly. I'll probably come back to this again in ten years or so and tell you if I've succeeded. See you all in other future threads. Thanks for your help.

Why not design a gameboy?

BiP

 

[guss]

Sure, it sounds cool, but you don't know anything about it, and you are overestimating your ability (you could do this with a lot of research, but there is no reason you should do that much research to build a project like this). Both a linear and circular accelerator would take up a lot of space, even if you were to build a small one, and it is actually rather boring (the concepts are cool, but not the construction). By boring I mean that it will basically be a pipe with wires and you won't see much of a result. If you got this idea from Michio Kaku stop, because his accelerator was some piece of garbage with wires strung around a football field and was barely an accelerator. His was a particle accelerator in that it accelerated particles he shot at it, but by that measure, a wire is also a particle accelerator.

I think you should build something else, though. Here are some ideas. Look up sonoluminescence; maybe try to make a lightbulb out of that. Try to build a small jet engine. Try to build a small full-sized electric car from scratch. Try to make a liquid nitrogen/oxygen/hydrogen generator out of old air conditioner parts or something. See, all these things are probably possible and will be way more interesting to research and build. Also, colleges (if you are worrying about that yet) and people will be more impressed and like you more if you build something like the things I listed. If you build a particle accelerator you sound really pretentious, even though you may not be meaning to. How what you do makes you come across as shouldn't be the deciding factor over what you build, but it's just a little extra food for thought.

Let me know how things go.

 

[guitarphysics]

I think you should build something else, though. Here are some ideas. Look up sonoluminescence; maybe try to make a lightbulb out of that. Try to build a small jet engine. Try to build a small full-sized electric car from scratch.

I love the electric car idea. How long do you think it would take? More importantly, how much would it cost?

 

[haael]

You guys just ruined some great invention, you know? Guitarphysics, never loose your dreams. You might discover a time machine some day.

 

[Gloyn]

Guys, I really like ambitious people, but don't overestimate that lad. He's 15.

Here comes an idea from me. You said, that you know the basics of circuits, electric current etc. Nice and WAY more simplier idea for a project is to build a magnetic levitron. All you'll need is a handful of resistors, transistors and capacitors, a cheap 'laser' light (I mean those pointers used for conducting presentations etc), several meters of copper cord and basic tools and fun during the work and after it is remarkable. Also it would help you understand what happens in circuits, how electromagnets work and other awesome things. If you want, I have some circuit schemes for that thing. Let me know about it.

 

[guitarphysics]

Thanks Gloyn, that sounds great. What I was planning on doing was starting out pretty simple, then moving on to more complicated things. For example, yesterday I made a voltaic pile, which was really easy, and maybe in a week or so I'll work on what you described. If you could send me the schematics that would be awesome! Thanks :)

PS. I am very excited about all the projects that others are suggesting, but Gloyn is right. I'm only 15! Love the ideas though, and I'll definitely get into quite a lot of them.