The quantum statistical approach

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the quantum statistical approach to calculating the partition function and the implications of using eigenenergies versus considering all possible states, including superpositions. Participants explore the validity of the traditional methods in quantum statistics, particularly in the context of thermal equilibrium and the density matrix formalism.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the correctness of calculating the partition function solely by summing the exponential of eigenenergies, suggesting that all possible states, including superpositions, should be considered.
  • Another participant agrees, pointing out a logical defect in quantum statistics that assumes a point-like distribution of probability over eigenfunctions while discarding other wave functions, which complicates reconciliation with the superposition principle.
  • A different participant challenges the idea that the density matrix formalism relies on specific assumptions about the realization of the ensemble, noting that density matrices can be constructed from various decompositions, not limited to eigenstates.
  • One participant highlights the difficulty in defining the thermal density matrix as a sum over an ensemble of states due to the uncountably many superpositions, leading to the conclusion that the thermal matrix must be postulated as an infinite matrix following the Liouville - von Neumann equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the adequacy of the quantum statistical approach, particularly in how it handles superpositions and the density matrix. There is no consensus on the implications of these issues or the validity of the traditional methods.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unresolved nature of the assumptions regarding the density matrix and the treatment of superpositions in quantum statistics. The discussion does not reach a definitive conclusion on these points.

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Usually in the problems I have done, I found the partition function by simply summing exponential of the eigenenergies, but lately I have started to wonder why this approach is correct. Do we not want to sum over the energies of all possible states as we did in the classical case. In that case we need to take into account that there exists an infinite amount of superpositions of eigenstates, which are all valid states. Are these accounted for when I do calculate the partition function using only eigenenergies?
What got me wondering was that my teacher explained the fermi gas by what I thought was a very handwaving argument. He said that its heat capacity is so low because very few electrons can transition to higher energy states because usually the above states are all occupied. Well now, given the fact that there are an infinite amount of states a particle can be in, does this really provide a good explanation?
 
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I agree with you, that's quite a logical defect in the quantum statistics. It really treats the density matrix ##\rho_{mn}## in the Hamiltonian basis as a basic object and in thermal equilibrium it assumes point-like distribution of probability over the eigenfunctions; the other wave functions are discarded. This saves it from divergences, but is quite hard to reconcile with the superposition principle.

We have discussed this in past here:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=598233

but with no satisfactory resolution.
 
Jano L. said:
thermal equilibrium it assumes point-like distribution of probability over the eigenfunctions; the other wave functions are discarded.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say here, but you cannot tell which states went into the construction of a density matrix. So yes, there's a decomposition into eigenstates, but there are also arbitrarily many decomposition into any overcomplete family of states, which are not eigenstates of anything because they don't even have to be orthogonal.

So I don't see at what point the density matrix formalism in statistical quantum theory makes use of any assumption about the realization of the ensemble.

Cheers,

Jazz
 
The problem is that the thermal density matrix cannot be introduced via general definition as a sum over ensemble of ##\phi_k##:

$$
\rho_{mn} = \sum_k p_k (\phi_m,\psi_k) (\psi_k,\phi_n),
$$

since there is uncountably many superpositions and the sum cannot be performed.


Instead, the thermal matrix is postulated as an infinite matrix that follows the Liouville - von Neumann equation derived from Schroedinger's equation for the above countable expansion.
 

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