2 explanations for normal force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the explanations for the normal force experienced by an object, specifically a book resting on a table. Participants explore informal explanations related to atomic interactions and electrostatic forces, considering both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the normal force can be explained by the springiness of the atomic lattice in the table, which attempts to restore its original structure, thereby pushing the book upward.
  • Others argue that the repulsive force between the book and the table is primarily due to the negatively charged electron clouds of both objects, suggesting that this interaction is sufficient to explain the normal force.
  • A later reply questions the relevance of the springiness explanation, stating that a perfectly rigid object would still produce a repelling force due to atomic interactions.
  • One participant mentions the Pauli exclusion principle as a potential factor in the repulsion, indicating that particles cannot occupy the same space, which may contribute to the normal force.
  • There is a query about using electrostatic forces to float the book above the table, with a suggestion that charging both the book and the table may be necessary for noticeable repulsion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the explanations for the normal force, with no consensus reached on which explanation is more valid or if both can coexist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of charging both objects for electrostatic levitation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on how the proposed explanations interrelate and the dependence on definitions of forces involved. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or physical implications of the claims made.

mishima
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I have heard 2 informal explanations for the normal force during a situation like a book resting on a table:

1. The springiness of the atomic lattice in the table attempts to restore its original structure, thus pushing the book.

2. Since there are electrons on the outside of both the book and the table, the book is prevented from falling through (- repels -). Some even say this is the Pauli exclusion principle, not just electrostatic forces. Those particles can't occupy space already occupied.

Which one is correct, or are they both correct?

Then, if 2 is correct, say you wanted to float the book above the table using electrostatic forces. Would you need to put a charge on both the book and the table? Or could you just put a charge on the table and let induction push the book up (since all the electrons rush to the top of the book)? Thanks.
 
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The springiness of the table is irrelevant. Even if it were a perfectly rigid object you would still get a repelling force between the atoms in the table and the atoms in the book thanks to their negatively charged electron clouds.

If you wanted to float the book a noticeable amount of distance above the table using electrostatics your would need to charge both the book and the table.
 
Ok, thanks. I had learned 2 as you said, but had seen 1 in some texts.
 
Well, it's not WRONG, it just doesn't explain the repulsive force at all. It itself is a result of repulsive forces within the object. (And maybe attractive too)
 

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