2012 mayan calender end of world astro line up opens stargate

[rustandplastic]

I am a sceptical TV documentary-maker currently involved with a team making a film about 2012, the end of the Mayan Calander and involved in this is a claim that a special alignment of the Earth relative to the centre of our galaxy opens a portal (like stargate) that the indigenous tribe we are working with claims will open, allowing two-way travel through what sounds like a wormhole.

What I ask of this group is a reference to any special "alignment" that may happen around this time (december,2012) and whatever the result we need to create some animation that describes this so we need someone reputable to do some research along these lines for our film and some ideas for our animators.

All comments welcome.

 

[hover]

man, can't people just make up their mind:zzz: ? oh we're going to die from bird flue, today its 6/6/06 the world is going to end, december 2012 the world will be sucked into a black hole. Wonder what we'll think of next

 

[rustandplastic]

Not so much the end of the world they say but close, usual eartquakes etc but at least they have identified the supposed gates location which is under investigation, I post a pic soon.

come on anyone with the tech to help me!

 

[Bystander]

... a special alignment of the Earth relative to the centre of our galaxy ...

Two points, Earth and galactic center, determine a line --- they got that much right --- now, all we got to do is figure out what's so special about about that line compared to the infinite number of other lines that can be drawn between Earth and the galactic center.

"Alignment" is a word used by freaks, loons, mystics, bunco artists, frauds, kooks, and the front end mechanic down at Meineke. Rot is rot, and that's nice as far as documentaries go, because it leaves you free to make up the visual effects as you go along --- little "2001" plus maybe some old "Time Tunnel" footage? Don't forget to include something from the "Heaven's Gate" suicide scene.

 

[DaveC426913]

rustandplastic, if it isn't apparent already, overly-speculative ideas such as end-of-world theories don't have much truck around here. That's not going to get you answers you're looking for.

 

[rustandplastic]

I agree, as i said I am a sceptic, but I am after some real scientist to use some predictive model and show me how the Earth's position will be (and the galaxy) will look on that date for the animation. I also include the following quote and say that "It pays to investigate".
I make films for clients on whatever their subject is, for money and fun.
At least its interesting searching for the truth.
Indigenous peoples of the world seem to have some stories,myths and legends that they pass on orally in great secret, some of these secrets they are destined in their "prophesies" to reveal at this time. I'm not here to judge I want any legitimate evidence that might apply.
thanks for your post, know anyone that can provide such a predictive model?


“All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed,
second it is violently opposed,
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer German philosopher, 1788-1860

 

[Bystander]

NASA/JPL, the "horse's mouth:" http://ephemeris.com/solar-system.html

Link works --- haven't gone through it in detail, but it looks like what you'd want for a TV audience.

 

[Janus]

I agree, as i said I am a sceptic, but I am after some real scientist to use some predictive model and show me how the Earth's position will be (and the galaxy) will look on that date for the animation. I

Then just show a picture of how the Earth is positioned in the galaxy now, because the difference in its position relative to the Galaxy's center in 6 years compared to its position now wouldn't even be noticeable; something in the order of 1/25000 of a degree.

 

[rustandplastic]

cheers for that link, I am the most pragmatic, evidence based sort of person but when I see basically the same story in many cultures, just not with the date the mayans give us, it seems worth a look. Well the client convinced me so here I am, I am here to learn from my more learned (and specialised) peers.
Janus thank you!

 

[rustandplastic]

you might want to see a film called "what the bleep do we know" full of interesting stuff and presented by some powerful quantum phyicists.

I didnt make it but wished I had! Quite challenging.

 

[Bystander]

My numbers come out to 10^-5 degree; for the TV audience you can place a piece of printer paper on a table 3 1/2 miles from the camera and ask the audience to pick the upper or lower side of the paper's edge.

"What the bleep?" That the yoga loonies?

 

[rustandplastic]

Guess you really are a homework helper, thanks, nice.
yes one "loony tune" otherwise pretty straight as the list below attests
opening your mind is mentioned, often, by previously incredulous scientists, check it out then judge. I didnt really want to get of topic but
here's a list
THE SCIENTISTS
PHYSICISTS


William Tiller, Ph.D.
Amit Goswami
John Hagelin, Ph.D.
Fred Alan Wolf, Ph.D.
Dr. David Albert

NEUROLOGISTS, ANESTHESIOLOGISTS & PHYSICIANS


Dr. Masaru Emoto
Stuart Hameroff M.D.
Dr. Jeffrey Satinover
Andrew B. Newberg, M.D.
Dr. Daniel Monti
Dr. Joseph Dispenza

MOLECULAR BIOLOGY


Dr. Candace Pert

SPIRITUAL TEACHERS, MYSTICS AND SCHOLARS


Ramtha
Dr. Miceal Ledwith

a reminder of my initial request
"What I ask of this group is a reference to any special "alignment" that may happen around this time (december,2012) and whatever the result we need to create some animation that describes this so we need someone reputable to do some research along these lines for our film and some ideas for our animators."

so 2012 has no significance, at all, to any astro guys?

 

[Bystander]

(snip)
so 2012 has no significance, at all, to any astro guys?

Well, I turn 65 --- physical chemist rather than an "astro guy," but same time, it's a license to stick my nose just about wherever I want.

"Pretty straight" is a relative term when you're discussing the QM crowd --- some keep their feet on the ground and remember they haven't done the first ionization potential for helium yet, and others go wandering off into the "philosophical woods" musing on "many worlds" vs. Copenhagen --- the second bunch can be entertaining, but aren't to be taken too terribly seriously when you've got real work to do.l

 

[rustandplastic]

ahh conversation that's better
Perhaps "the bleep" might inspire another thread and your opinion noted with respect.
I'm a mere child of 47 or so but I will reserve my decision on all this till a
suitably qualified specialist or three can concur. Perhaps I should post some of my "loony" clients research and let you rip it apart, either way controversy works for film-making...look at the da Vinci code, the author always said it was fiction, but the church helped him sell millions.
Please remember I have no agenda here but the facts and to make an interesting and as accurate as possible film.
So if they let me I will leave this thread open for a while..bedtime its 4am in sydney...catch up with the post on the morrow.
cheers
bruce
oh Ok I can't sleep yet so, some more fun.
The mayans, my clients believe, are privvy to some knowledge perhaps it is similar to this train of thought - sorry i will post the source later...

...after decades of focusing their attentions skyward, the Meinels – now in their 80s – are grappling with a question that seems, at first light, to be far, far away from astronomy. Namely: Why did modern humans and other species emerge some 40,000 years ago?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20060607-9999-lz1c07meinel.html

So if the calendar is about predicting, solar flares/cosmic bursts/asteroids whatever
it would seeem prudent to my mind to ask some experts.
So if there is no, I will try to choose my words better sir, yes sir, anything that may fit the scenario let me at it...maybe I should have mentioned there are several paid interviewee positions for this film.
OK now its goodnight from downunder (the bloods rushing to my head being upside down n' all..)

 

[Bystander]

By all means, hang around. If I see the History Channel sink H.M.S. Barham one more time at Tsushima I'm going to puke --- documentary types should do as you're doing much more often than has been done in the past.

2012? You can play numerology games: count solar or lunar eclipses (with the ephemeris in the link) from the starting date of the calendar to 2012 and compare the numbers to numbers of steps on temples, or to "significant" numbers archaeologists have winkled from temple carvings and inscriptions. Look at long period comets due to appear in 2012 --- Shoemaker-Levy is a tough act to follow --- means I haven't really paid all that much attention to comets lately.

http://cometography.com/periodic_comets.html lists periodic beasts --- there're a handful scheduled for 2012, few more in 2011 --- check periods vs. the funny year and cycles in pre-Columbian calendars, and number of appearances vs. "magic" numbers. It's numerology, and nothing more than coincidence if something does match, but can be offered as a possible root for ending a calendar other than that the mason ran out of room.

 

[Moonbear]

I guess it will be truly debunked in 2013 when we wake up on New Year's day and see that the world hasn't yet come to an end.

If the prediction is so vague that it doesn't specify what will align, then it's useless. The only way to test it would be if it did specify a specific alignment and then we could verify that that particular alignment would actually occur. I'm not an astronomer or physicist, but it seems to me that if you draw a line between two sufficiently distant points in the universe, something else lining up on that path as well is probably pretty likely. Whether or not you call it "special" depends on your point of view and how much you believe in hocus pocus. At least to us non-astronomers, "special" means it's something we can see with the naked eye or crude telescopes to enjoy seeing something we don't get to see every day, even if in the greater scheme of the whole universe, it is something that isn't all that uncommon or unusual. So, what do you define as "special?"

 

[wolram]

Astromomy needs a spring clean.

 

[rustandplastic]

thanks bystander that's the idea! thanks for the link.
couldnt agree with you more wolram, that goes for all science I think.
As more multi discipline studies like this engender more cooperation.
I am all for a complete debunking of all this if its done with pure science.

Ok so let's define this "alignment" as the sun/earth moving to a plane equal to the eclpictic plane of the milky way and specify an increase in the intensity of the cyclic sunspot activity as the result. I realize the centre of the galaxy is probably a black hole not a "sun" as described here but let that go and comment on these supplied images.

 

[Bystander]

First image: 10^-5 degrees/a for Earth's (solar system's) revolution about the galactic center means the path of the Earth from 1000 BCE to 5000 AD ain't going to show up as anything but a dot from any "normal" perspective of the picture shown; if I distort it by moving the observer's position to a fixed point at some distance, dr, greater than the solar system's average orbital radius beyond Earth's position at some point in 2012, I can elongate the system track to any length I wish in the galactic plane by decreasing dr (increasing parallax); I do NOT get the same elongation in the vertical plane. I'm going to have to guess that this is some peculiar astrological projection, and I've no idea what relation it might be thought to have with physical reality. If we look at Barnard's Star, 10 asec/a, for 6ka, and move it 8.5 degrees above and below the galactic plane from earth, at the distance implied in the perspective, the track might be the length of the circle used to mark 2012.

Second image: title is legible, but the labels on the diagram aren't --- got a silly astrological look to it. http://www.rssd.esa.int/Hipparcos/properm.html might be a better source for looking at "proper motion" of stars --- claims to animate the Pleiades.

Third: weather goes to hell and civilization follows --- or, Toba, or Tambora ("eighteen hundred and froze to death").

General note: nothing magical about the galactic plane --- it's a reference for measurement.

 

[russ_watters]

you might want to see a film called "what the bleep do we know" full of interesting stuff and presented by some powerful quantum phyicists. http://www.whatthebleep.com.au/scientists.asp
I didnt make it but wished I had! Quite challenging.

This post contradicts your previous post. Discussions of that movie don't go far either, and your discriminating ear and your understanding of physics need some work if you can't see why.

For your question about the "alignment", most decent astronomy software (I use starry night) will allow you to position yourself virtually anywhere in the solar system to watch the planets move. For the galaxy, though, we aren't even sure what loks like and it won't move appreciably on human timescales either, so the only way to animate it is to find an artist's conception of it and do a flyby/zoom on that picture.

For that little graphic you have of this "alignment" - the Pleiades is not on the galactic plane and won't be in 2012 - or in 10,000 (the limit of Starry Night's ability to calculate). On that timescale, I can't even tell if it is moving towards or away the galactic plane. If you want, you can take stills from a program like Starry Night, frame-out the Pleiades and the galactic plane, animate them to watch the stars' proper motion, and watch it not move on anything under a geologic timeframe. It wouldn't make for a very interesting animation, though.

 

[rustandplastic]

thank you all!
that's why i came because I'm not a physicist
cheers for the tip on "starry night"
as I said the graphics are as supplied to me your insight is much appreciated.
I would really like to see a confrontation in this film between the esoterics and scientists but also to see where anything might correllate in several avenues.
I will keep an eye on this for any additions but thanks I get the idea.
bruce

 

[quantumcarl]

NASA/JPL, the "horse's mouth:" http://ephemeris.com/solar-system.html

Link works --- haven't gone through it in detail, but it looks like what you'd want for a TV audience.

The ephemeris site linked to the Max-Planck-Institut für extraterrestrische Physik site:

http://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/GC/index.php

and its fantastic. I've always wondered what the centre of this galaxy was doing.. its nice that someone else is checking it out!

As for 2012... we'll just have to wait and see... I guess.

We've been noticing a rise in overall temperatures according to some sources... quite a few actually... and regardless of the reasons for this climactic rise in temp. we will definitely see some changes to the Earth's geography and people's lifestyles (EDIT: if sources are accurate).

When the glaciers of the polar caps begin to melt they tend to form damns of melt water that pressure against the remaining ice and create a "log jam" of sorts. When this water finally breaks free... it can create tsunamis larger than anything we've seen. Some of these waves can travel over 1000s of miles of land and hit areas completely unrelated to the ice fields they originate in.

Also there is isostatic release of pressure on the crust of the planet... with the weight of the glacial melt water being redistributed into the oceans. When this lift happens it generates enormass changes in the crust which allow magma to break through and causes earthquakes of hitherto unexperienced magnitude.

Its only 6 years till the "fateful" year of 2012 and I don't know if that's enough time to melt the polar caps or not. In Iceland they're experiencing a rapid meltdown... today we see some of the evaporated melt-water dumping on Washington DC.

As far as I can see the possiblity of the devastating effects of Glacial meltdown could be in full swing by 2012 because of the exponential nature of the rise in temperatures around the globe.

As for the TIME TUNNEL ... thing and the alignment etc. With all due respect to the "tribes" that came up with the idea... perhaps they should get 100% royalties from the proceeds of the documentary for coming up with a cool theme for an episodal tv series.

 

[chroot]

Please try to keep the thread focused on issues of actual scientific interest. Our members do not come here to read about tripe like What the Bleep.

- Warren

 

[Rach3]

I am a sceptical TV documentary-maker currently involved with a team making a film about 2012, the end of the Mayan Calander...

Never mind that, there's a far more urgent issue at hand. I've just looked at my wall calendar, and it's only got until Dec. 31, 2006!

 

[Rach3]

By the way, when you make a documentary, the assumption is you have some evidence to base it on. As of now, all you have is yet another end-of-world prediction based on numerology. That's not even a figment of a documentary. And if you throw in a few crackpot ideas like "time portals" and the alignment of stars - you still don't have a documentary. Even special-effects and fancy voiceovers won't help you.

By the way, do you know what you call the idea that "alignment" of planets or stars has significance? I'll give you a hint: it's not physics - there's nothing special about the orientation of distant stars, whose mutual graviational interactions are effectively negligible. It's called astrology, and it has a long and fascinating history (a great read!), from the ancient and medieval times when humans first attempted to make sense of the universe. Alignments of planets were thought to have mystical effects on nature. Thankfully our collective understanding of "nature" has much improved since then, you should try to keep up.

 

[Rach3]

Oh yeah, the ancient Maya were no different from the other ancients - in fact the very calendar you refer to was heavily rooted in astrology and superstition:

As the particular calendaric configurations were once again repeated, so too were the "supernatural" influences with which they were associated. Thus it was held that particular calendar configurations had a specific "character" to them, which would influence events on days exhibiting that configuration. Divinations could then be made from the auguries associated with a certain configuration, since events taking place on some future date would be subject to the same influences as its corresponding previous cycle dates. Events and ceremonies would be timed to coincide with auspicious dates, and avoid inauspicious ones (Coe 1992, Miller and Taube 1993).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_calendar#Maya_concepts_of_time

 

[Arian]

I know what's going happen...

The giant green sphere of my world will be seen through the hole and my family will return and then...

My giant native american friends will rise from the dead!


...
...
wouldn't that suck?

 

[matthew baird]

Predictions like these are funny. Similar to the "curse" put on leaders of the American people. During the war of 1812, the British promised the shawnee native americans that they wouldn't allow the Americans to expand westward anymore if they had their assistance. Chief Tecumseh's brother was killed during the skirmish. Commited to seek revenge, the spiritual leader of the shawnee escaped to a cave to meditate on the matter. He was a self taught astrologer and his predictions were said to be amazing. He gazed up into the sky and saw two bright stars aligned(Saturn and Jupiter) He then "cursed" the white man saying that for the next 150 years, every time that these stars align that the leader of the Americans will die leading his people. Sure enough the curse played out to be true LOL. Lincoln and kennedy both were assasinated during this "alignment". Reagan had an assasination attempt made on him but survived! Of course the curse had then lapsed. 150 yrs had passed. TOTALLY coincedence if you ask me but still very interesting!

 

[Rach3]

Predictions like these are funny. Similar to the "curse" put on leaders of the American people. During the war of 1812, the British promised the shawnee native americans that they wouldn't allow the Americans to expand westward anymore if they had their assistance. Chief Tecumseh's brother was killed during the skirmish. Commited to seek revenge, the spiritual leader of the shawnee escaped to a cave to meditate on the matter. He was a self taught astrologer and his predictions were said to be amazing. He gazed up into the sky and saw two bright stars aligned(Saturn and Jupiter) He then "cursed" the white man saying that for the next 150 years, every time that these stars align that the leader of the Americans will die leading his people. Sure enough the curse played out to be true LOL. Lincoln and kennedy both were assasinated during this "alignment". Reagan had an assasination attempt made on him but survived! Of course the curse had then lapsed. 150 yrs had passed. TOTALLY coincedence if you ask me but still very interesting!

This is utter nonsense. Two planets are ALWAYS aligned - they define a line!

 

[matthew baird]

haha I realize that two stars or planets are always aligned. But they come together every 20 yrs I guess...STILL he did predict what was goin to happen in the future...

 

[SpaceTiger]

...STILL he did predict what was goin to happen in the future...

There's no evidence to support Chief Tecumseh ever saying that. The original legend (for which there was also no evidence) had nothing to do with the planets and centered on the regularity of the election years of presidents who died in office. Then some astrologer stepped in and tried to explain with planetary alignments and the BS just multiplied...

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/curse.asp"

 

[Arian]

you are right but saddly human culture likes to say "aligned" only when two bodies are aligned with the sun. Jupiter could be 0* above the sun while Earth could be 90* around the sun, and the two are still alligned. Yet they are not "alligned" with the sun. As most people think, when they say alligned.

 

[selfAdjoint]

you are right but saddly human culture likes to say "aligned" only when two bodies are aligned with the sun. Jupiter could be 0* above the sun while Earth could be 90* around the sun, and the two are still alligned. Yet they are not "alligned" with the sun. As most people think, when they say alligned.

Well as my old astronomy prof said when I remarked something like this, any two points define a line and any three (if not colinear) define a triangle, so saying in wonder that two things are aligned or three things are in a triangle is, well, duh.

What's interesting is a syzygy, that is three things in a line, like Earth-Moon-Sun at the Full and New phases of the Moon, or at eclipses of the Moon or Sun. Or like the oppositions of Mars that Tycho observed and Kepler used to discover his laws of planetary motion.

 

[Intuitive]

Actually the Mayan Calander date 2012 is very significant, It's the day we can all throw the Mayan Calander away because it's out of date.

 

[Arian]

You have the Mayan Calender?

 

[setAI]

some in the world of computer science and nanotechnology are trying to make the 2012 Eskaton a sort-of self-fulfilled prophecy- think grey-goo- all the matter in local space converted into computronium

 

[quantumcarl]

What's interesting is a syzygy, that is three things in a line, like Earth-Moon-Sun at the Full and New phases of the Moon, or at eclipses of the Moon or Sun. Or like the oppositions of Mars that Tycho observed and Kepler used to discover his laws of planetary motion.

Syzygy... cool word.

Oxford American Dictionary gives its root:

"syzygy |?sizij?| noun ( pl. -gies) Astronomy a conjunction or opposition, esp. of the moon with the sun

: the planets were aligned in syzygy.

• a pair of connected or corresponding things : animus and anima represent a supreme pair of opposites, the syzygy.

ORIGIN early 17th cent.: via late Latin from Greek suzugia, from suzugos ‘yoked, paired,’ from sun- ‘with, together’ + the stem of zeugnunai ‘to yoke.’"

There was some concern (when isn't there) amongst the astrology crowd about 5 or more planets "aligning" and how their combined gravity, em fields etc... would effectively either open a "time tunnel" or in the least act as a catylist in opening a can of worms.

Please tell me, SelfaJoint or others what is the significance of this sort of multi-planetary (point) syzygy or "alignment"? Is this somehow related to what ancient or tribal astromoners are going on about with regard to an alignment between points from here to the centre of our galaxy?

 

[russ_watters]

Astrology and astronomy are two very different things. Among astronomers, such "alignments" are just neat to look at or perhaps opportunities for easier study (ie, the opportunity to send Voyager 2 to visit 4 planets).

 

[selfAdjoint]

Please tell me, SelfaJoint or others what is the significance of this sort of multi-planetary (point) syzygy or "alignment"? Is this somehow related to what ancient or tribal astromoners are going on about with regard to an alignment between points from here to the centre of our galaxy?

The original use of syzygys was in predicting ecllipses. An eclipse can only happen at a syzygy of the Sun, Moon, and Earth, so predicting eclipses boils down to predicting syzygys plus the side conditions that specialize some syszygys into eclipse confinguration. Briefly the orbits of the Erth and Moon about the Sun are tilted with respect to each other, but syzygy only concerns movement in what astronomers call longitude, and the reason every new moon is not an eclipse of the Sun is that when the three orbs are aligned in two dimensions, they can miss alignment in the third.

Another important fact about syszygys is that when you have one, you can conclude from Earthly observations valid facts about the kinematics of the other two bodies relative to each other. Thus Ptolemy and Copernicus using three oppositions of Mars (syzygys of Earth, Mars, and the Sun) and a geometric assumption ("bisection of the equant") could compute the position of the equant or point of equal angular velocity for Mars, within their hypothesis that the planets, even if they don't move with constant angular velocity relative to th center of their orbits (which is contradicted by observation) do so with respect to SOME point, the desired equant.

Then Kepler was led to throw out the equant when he saw that with FOUR oppositions he could find the equant without assuming the bisection hypothesis. But when he did this with two different sets of four oppositions (giving thanks to Tycho Brahe for all those wonderfully accurate observations) he found the position of the equant depended on which oppositions (syzygys) you used to compute it. So it wasn't a real thing, and Kepler went looking for an alternative to constant angular velocity and found his area rule (Kepler's Second Law).

"Ancient astronomers" had no concept of the galaxy as a collection of stars. Even Aristarchus, who conceived the motion of the Earth around the Sun, thought of the stars as little lights on a fixed sphere, and the galaxy (Latin via galactica; Milky Way) was just a spill of brightness across the sky which the naked eye was unable to resolve into stars. When somebody today tells you the ancient people had knowledge which there is no way they could have learned, you can be confident they're feeding you bunk.

 

[quantumcarl]

The original use of syzygys was in predicting ecllipses. An eclipse can only happen at a syzygy of the Sun, Moon, and Earth, so predicting eclipses boils down to predicting syzygys plus the side conditions that specialize some syszygys into eclipse confinguration. Briefly the orbits of the Erth and Moon about the Sun are tilted with respect to each other, but syzygy only concerns movement in what astronomers call longitude, and the reason every new moon is not an eclipse of the Sun is that when the three orbs are aligned in two dimensions, they can miss alignment in the third.

Another important fact about syszygys is that when you have one, you can conclude from Earthly observations valid facts about the kinematics of the other two bodies relative to each other. Thus Ptolemy and Copernicus using three oppositions of Mars (syzygys of Earth, Mars, and the Sun) and a geometric assumption ("bisection of the equant") could compute the position of the equant or point of equal angular velocity for Mars, within their hypothesis that the planets, even if they don't move with constant angular velocity relative to th center of their orbits (which is contradicted by observation) do so with respect to SOME point, the desired equant.

Then Kepler was led to throw out the equant when he saw that with FOUR oppositions he could find the equant without assuming the bisection hypothesis. But when he did this with two different sets of four oppositions (giving thanks to Tycho Brahe for all those wonderfully accurate observations) he found the position of the equant depended on which oppositions (syzygys) you used to compute it. So it wasn't a real thing, and Kepler went looking for an alternative to constant angular velocity and found his area rule (Kepler's Second Law).

"Ancient astronomers" had no concept of the galaxy as a collection of stars. Even Aristarchus, who conceived the motion of the Earth around the Sun, thought of the stars as little lights on a fixed sphere, and the galaxy (Latin via galactica; Milky Way) was just a spill of brightness across the sky which the naked eye was unable to resolve into stars. When somebody today tells you the ancient people had knowledge which there is no way they could have learned, you can be confident they're feeding you bunk.

Thank you. You'd have to wonder where anyone would get the idea of a galaxy without actually having made resolute, visual confirmation of, say, near-by Andromeda and then extrapolating that configuration onto where we find ourselves in this not so dissimilar galaxy, the milky-way. It would take a precise lens in a controlled observatory to come up with this idea.

There is evidence from the south americian continent of extremely fine-tuned fashioning and polishing of quartz and obsidian but no evidence that I'm aware of that lenses were ever manufactured. There is, however, an example of a finely tuned astronomical observatory in the Yucatån. Just what was observed from that structure is unknown as of yet.

 

[selfAdjoint]

There is evidence from the south americian continent of extremely fine-tuned fashioning and polishing of quartz and obsidian but no evidence that I'm aware of that lenses were ever manufactured. There is, however, an example of a finely tuned astronomical observatory in the Yucatån. Just what was observed from that structure is unknown as of yet.

Te Maya were excellent naked eye observers. Based on their mythology, they had a special interest in the planet Venus. Part of the cycles within cycles of their famous calendar was correlating the http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/SynodicPeriod.html" .

 

[quantumcarl]

Te Maya were excellent naked eye observers. Based on their mythology, they had a special interest in the planet Venus. Part of the cycles within cycles of their famous calendar was correlating the http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/SynodicPeriod.html" .

That's very cool.

The Maya also had a wonderful coastal warning and guidance system of lighthouses yet there is no evidence of them being mariners or a sea faring people. At least, no ships that I know of, perhaps fishing rigs or outriggers?.

Do you think this fascination with Venus had anything to do with Velocovski's unique hypothesis describing how Venus was expunged from Jupiter (because Jupiter was too large for its orbit) and traversing through Earth's orbit then hitting Mars before settling into its own orbit? Velocovski put the timeline of this planetary transfection as happening at 3600 years ago. That would certainly spark enough interest in anyone who witnessed it to have them create a tradition of "keeping an eye" on that particular planet!

 

[J77]

Don't you just need to read that Mayan Prophecies book, surely all the answers are in there?!?

Used to read all those books when I was younger. The first ones, eg. Orion Mystery and Fingerprints of the Gods were quite good, but then every hippy thought they could write a new one. The shops are satuated with this guff now.

As far as the alignment thing goes - back when I first read them, I used a program called Redshift to visualise the alignment. Very nice program, that was

 

[selfAdjoint]

Do you think this fascination with Venus had anything to do with Velocovski's unique hypothesis describing how Venus was expunged from Jupiter (because Jupiter was too large for its orbit) and traversing through Earth's orbit then hitting Mars before settling into its own orbit? Velocovski put the timeline of this planetary transfection as happening at 3600 years ago. That would certainly spark enough interest in anyone who witnessed it to have them create a tradition of "keeping an eye" on that particular planet!

No I don't, but Velivivski's crazy theory may have had some connection to the Maya interest; he based his speculations on a lot of old myths from here and there.

Let's not get into Velivovski, there are too many cranks waiting to drop in and swamp us with their junk.

 

[franznietzsche]

you might want to see a film called "what the bleep do we know" full of interesting stuff and presented by some powerful quantum phyicists. http://www.whatthebleep.com.au/scientists.asp
I didnt make it but wished I had! Quite challenging.

Oh brother. I'm insulted.

 

[Arian]

I can feel it tugging on me, miles and miles and miles and miles and miles away.
<i>Mother Planet, Mother Planet, Why did you give me a ship with a crappy hyperdrive, and a crappy sublight drive...at least on Mars there isn't the chance of getting blown up by communist countries who have clone armies...now i can only get to the moon... ):

 

[Outlandish_Existence]

This is the weirdest read I've yet to come across on physicsforums... I still enjoyed it :)

 

[Rach3]

It's still here? I thought they locked this crackpot thread long ago...

 

[J77]

yes one "loony tune" otherwise pretty straight as the list below attests:

NEUROLOGISTS, ANESTHESIOLOGISTS & PHYSICIANS


Dr. Masaru Emoto

The water guy?

I hope he's your "loony tune"

 

[scott1]

It looks like in 2012 Venus will be making a second and last transit across the sun this century. It also looks like that it will star on a Sunday which means that there is going to be a Friday the 13 in January. Also on same day that year the Kyoto Protocol expires. So for it looks like you should preparing for the end of the world.