232.15.4.46 Change the Integral order then evaluate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around changing the order of integration in a triple integral and evaluating it. Participants explore the implications of this change, including determining the appropriate bounds for the variables involved. The context includes mathematical reasoning and integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests changing the order of integration but expresses uncertainty about the representation of variables x and y.
  • Another participant clarifies that the change of integration order pertains only to the x and y variables and describes the region of integration in the xy-plane.
  • There is a proposal to find new bounds for y in terms of x and to express the integral in a different form, but participants are unsure about the specifics of these bounds.
  • A later reply emphasizes the need for the limits of integration to be independent of each other, noting that the original limits for y and x must be carefully considered to avoid dependency issues.
  • One participant attempts to derive the new integral form but expresses confusion about the placement of certain terms, particularly the factor involving z.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct bounds for the integration after changing the order. There are multiple competing views on how to approach the problem, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the integration limits and the need for careful consideration of the region of integration. There are unresolved questions about the correct formulation of the integral after changing the order.

karush
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$\tiny{232.15.4.46}$
$\textsf{Change the order then evaluate}$
\begin{align*}\displaystyle
I&=\int_{0}^{1}\int_{0}^{2}\int_{2y}^{4}
\frac{5\cos(x^2)}{2z}
\, dx \, dy \, dz
\end{align*}

ok I presume the change that should be made is...
altho I don't know what represents x or y

\begin{align*}\displaystyle
I&=\int_{0}^{1} \int_{2y}^{4} \int_{0}^{2}
\frac{5\cos(x^2)}{2z}
\, dx \, dy \, dz
\end{align*}also I wanted to plot this on W|A but didn't know the para metric for it
\end{align*}
 
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Hi karush,

By writing

$$I = \int_{0}^{1}\frac{5}{2z}\left[\int_{0}^{2}\int_{2y}^{4}\cos(x^{2})dx\,dy \right]dz,$$

hopefully it makes sense that the change of integration order needed pertains only to the $x$ and $y$ variables in this example (generally speaking, this need not be the case). That in mind, the term in the brackets is an integral over a region, say $A$, in $\mathbb{R}^{2}$ described by

$$A=\{(x,y): 0\leq y\leq 2~~~\&~~~ 2y\leq x\leq 4\}.$$

Can you determine what shape this region is? Once you do, can you then find a bound for $y$ in terms of $x$ on this region (as opposed to the one you currently have, which is a bound for $x$ in terms of $y$)? To help you do this, imagine drawing a vertical line anywhere that passes from the bottom of this region to the top of the region -- the new lower limit will be the equation for $y$ in terms of $x$ that corresponds to the first "curve" your vertical line passes through as it enters $A,$ and the new upper limit will be the equation for $y$ in terms of $x$ that corresponds to the second "curve" your vertical line passes through as it exits $A$.

Secondly, you need new bounds for $x$ itself in terms of fixed numbers (as opposed to the ones you currently have for $y$, which are $0$ and $2$). If you can achieve all of this you can then perform the integration in brackets as

$$\int_{?}^{?}\int_{?}^{?}\cos(x^{2})\,dy\,dx.$$

Hopefully this helps and isn't too confusing as to what is meant. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
GJA said:
Secondly, you need new bounds for $x$ itself in terms of fixed numbers (as opposed to the ones you currently have for $y$, which are $0$ and $2$). If you can achieve all of this you can then perform the integration in brackets as

$$\int_{?}^{?}\int_{?}^{?}\cos(x^{2})\,dy\,dx.$$

Hopefully this helps and isn't too confusing as to what is meant. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!

$$\int_{1}^{4}\int_{0}^{1}\cos(x^{2})\,dy\,dx.$$

ok I am assuming we can make adjustment with $0$ to $1$ from $dz$
but don't know where the $\frac{5}{2z}$ fits in

knowing that the dz will be same at as long as it is 1 we can place it anywhere

sorry think I'm lost on this
 
Last edited:
karush said:
$\tiny{232.15.4.46}$
$\textsf{Change the order then evaluate}$
\begin{align*}\displaystyle
I&=\int_{0}^{1}\int_{0}^{2}\int_{2y}^{4}
\frac{5\cos(x^2)}{2z}
\, dx \, dy \, dz
\end{align*}

ok I presume the change that should be made is...
altho I don't know what represents x or y

\begin{align*}\displaystyle
I&=\int_{0}^{1} \int_{2y}^{4} \int_{0}^{2}
\frac{5\cos(x^2)}{2z}
\, dx \, dy \, dz
\end{align*}
This would have the second integral, with respect to y, going from 2y to 4. That's impossible! You cannot have the limits of integration, with respect to a variable, depending upon that variable.

Fortunately, the limits of the integration with respect to z do not depend upon x or y and the integrations with respect to x and y do not depend upon z so we can treat this as just a two dimensional, xy, problem. In the original integration, the integral with respect to y has limits of integration 0 and 2. On an xy graph, draw vertical lines y= 0 and y= 4. The limits of integration for the integral with respect to x has lower limit 2y and upper limit 2. Draw the vertical line x= 2 and the line x= 2y which is the same as y= x/2. That line crosses y= 0 at (0, 0) and y= 4 at (2, 4). The region of integration is the triangle with vertices (0, 0), (2, 0), and (2, 4).

To change the order of integration, so that we are integrating with respect to x first and then y: the second integral, with respect to y, must not depend upon x- the limits of integration must be number. To cover the entire region, y must go from 0 to 4. And, for each y, x must go from 0 up to the line x= y/2. The integral must be
[math]\int_0^1\int_0^4\int_0^{y/2} \frac{5 cos(x^2)}{2z}dxdydz= \frac{5}{2}\left(\int_0^1\frac{dz}{z}\right)\left(\int_0^4\int_0^{2x} cos(x^2) dy dx\right)[/math].

also I wanted to plot this on W|A but didn't know the para metric for it
\end{align*}
 

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