3 different solutions to the same integral

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of integrals and their relationship to derivatives, specifically focusing on the existence of multiple functions that can yield the same derivative. Participants explore the implications of different forms of functions and their derivatives, particularly in the context of trigonometric identities.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question whether three different functions can have the same derivative, citing examples of functions that differ by constants. They also discuss the implications of trigonometric identities on the relationships between these functions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering insights and examples to clarify the relationship between integrals and derivatives. Some participants have provided guidance on the use of constants of integration and trigonometric identities, while others are exploring the nuances of the topic without reaching a definitive consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are references to specific functions and their derivatives, as well as discussions about the constants of integration that may affect the interpretation of the solutions. Participants also highlight the importance of recognizing the differences in slopes of the functions at specific points.

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Homework Statement


Snap2.jpg
Snap4.jpg


Homework Equations


$$\frac{dy}{dx}=f(x)~\rightarrow~dy=f(x)dx~\rightarrow~y=\int f(x)dx$$

The Attempt at a Solution


If the interpretation of an integral is the derivative at that point, x1 for example, then these can't all be solutions since the tangent, the derivatives, at x1 are different.
The constant C can't compensate for that since it shifts the graph up or down, not to the sides, as the solutions ##~\sin^2x+C_1## and ##~\cos^2x+C_2## are, but the solution ##-\frac{1}{2}\cos(2x)+C_3## is neither that nor that.
 
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Karol said:
If the interpretation of an integral is the derivative at that point ...

An integral is not a derivative. It's an anti-derivative. If you differentiate two functions that differ by a constant, you get the same derivative
 
PeroK said:
An integral is not a derivative. It's an anti-derivative. If you differentiate two functions that differ by a constant, you get the same derivative
My mistake, of course an integral is an anti-derivative. if i differentiate these 3 functions i indeed get ##~2\sin x\cos x~##, how come? indeed the slopes to the graphs of these functions differ for the same x. so my question is can 3 different functions have the same derivative?
 
Karol said:
My mistake, of course an integral is an anti-derivative. if i differentiate these 3 functions i indeed get ##~2\sin x\cos x~##, how come? indeed the slopes to the graphs of these functions differ for the same x. so my question is can 3 different functions have the same derivative?

##f(x) = x+1##
##g(x) = x+2##
##h(x) = x + 3##

Three different functions. Same derivative.
 
Karol said:
My mistake, of course an integral is an anti-derivative. if i differentiate these 3 functions i indeed get ##~2\sin x\cos x~##, how come? indeed the slopes to the graphs of these functions differ for the same x. so my question is can 3 different functions have the same derivative?
In fact, an infinite number of functions can have the same derivative, provided that all of the functions are vertical translations of one another. For example, y = x2, y = x2 + 1, y = x2 + 2, etc. all have exactly the same derivative.
 
And, of course:

##f(x) = \sin^2(x)##
##g(x) = -\cos^2(x)##
##h(x) = -\frac12 \cos(2x)##
 
Indeed:
1.JPG
Strange, since these functions without the cubes look different
 
Karol said:

Homework Statement


View attachment 114571 View attachment 114572

Homework Equations


$$\frac{dy}{dx}=f(x)~\rightarrow~dy=f(x)dx~\rightarrow~y=\int f(x)dx$$

The Attempt at a Solution


If the interpretation of an integral is the derivative at that point, x1 for example, then these can't all be solutions since the tangent, the derivatives, at x1 are different.
The constant C can't compensate for that since it shifts the graph up or down, not to the sides, as the solutions ##~\sin^2x+C_1## and ##~\cos^2x+C_2## are, but the solution ##-\frac{1}{2}\cos(2x)+C_3## is neither that nor that.

You seem to have forgotten the basic trigonometric identities.
 
Ray Vickson said:
You seem to have forgotten the basic trigonometric identities.
I know: ##~\sin^2 x+\cos^2 x=1~\rightarrow~\sin^2x=1-\cos^2 x##
And not just ##~-\cos^2 x~##.
$$\cos(2x)=\cos^2 x-\sin^2 x=2\cos^2 x-1=1-2\sin^2 x$$
 
  • #10
Karol said:
I know: ##~\sin^2 x+\cos^2 x=1~\rightarrow~\sin^2x=1-\cos^2 x##
And not just ##~-\cos^2 x~##.
$$\cos(2x)=\cos^2 x-\sin^2 x=2\cos^2 x-1=1-2\sin^2 x$$

Now you have forgotten the constants of integration. We have ##\cos^2 x + C_1 = -\sin^2 x + C_2## for some constants of integration ##C_1,C_2##. There is no contradiction. You will notice in the book extract you included that the book used three separate constants of integration.
 
  • #11
But:
$$-\frac{1}{2}\cos(2x)\neq -2\sin^2 x+C$$
Snap2.jpg
 
  • #12
Karol said:
But:
$$-\frac{1}{2}\cos(2x)\neq -2\sin^2 x+C$$
See post #6 for the correct relationship.
 
  • #13
$$-\frac{1}{2}\cos(2x)=-\frac{1}{2}+\sin^2 x=\sin^2 x+C$$
You're right.
Thank you PeroK, Mark44 and Ray Vickson
 

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