A couple of questions about magnetism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of magnetism, particularly how it is perceived and understood in modern physics. Participants explore the relationship between electric fields and magnetic fields, the role of reference frames, and the implications of special relativity on these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the nature of magnetism, wondering if it is a human convention influenced by physical size and how it relates to electric fields and reference frames.
  • Another participant explains that an electron at rest creates an electric field but no magnetic field, and that magnetism arises when the electron is in motion, referencing the relativistic Lorentz transform.
  • Some participants suggest that special relativity is crucial for understanding magnetism, recommending books that discuss these implications, including works by Richard Fitzpatrick and Edward M. Purcell.
  • A participant mentions the 'Faraday Paradox', noting that spinning a magnet does not induce emf in nearby objects but does induce emf in the magnet itself, suggesting further complexities in the relationship between magnetism and motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the nature of magnetism and its relationship to electric fields and reference frames. There is no consensus on a singular understanding, and multiple perspectives are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve unresolved assumptions about the definitions of magnetism and electric fields, as well as the implications of relativistic effects that are not fully explored.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electromagnetism, special relativity, or anyone curious about the foundational concepts of magnetism in physics.

JRPB
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¿How do modern physicists think about magnetism?

Recently, I realized something really cool that made me re-evaluate the way I thought about magnetism. I'm not a physicist, I'm in the early process of becoming one (old cow trying out a whole new career). I had this "fieldy" notion about what magnetic forces were, and had a vague idea on how it relates to the electric field. After taking some calculus and classical mechanics, I eventually bumped into the interesting and different things that can happen when one chooses different frames of reference for a given problem.

Suppose I'm in a lonely region of space and I watch this electron zoom by. I have with me a device that measures magnetic fields. Since the electron is moving relative to me, the Ampere-Maxwell equation would say that my detector will register some magnetic field. However, if I'm moving at the same velocity parallel to the electron (same speed, same direction) my detector will not register this magnetic field. Naturally, because in my frame of reference, the charge is now at rest.

So, if an electron (or any other charged particle, for that matter) creates a condition in space called the electric field, and other charged particles feel this condition: ¿What is magnetism?* ¿How come this "force" depends on the frame of reference? ¿Am I abstracting something the wrong way? ¿Is magnetism another human convention due to our physical size?

If you know/feel/think this has been answered somewhere else, I'd appreciate any links or references.

Thanks in advance.

* A perfectly acceptable answer would be: magnetism is what happens when a e-field changes in time, that's the way nature is. However, I'm looking for some insight, if there's any to be found.
 
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An electron at rest creates an electric field but no magnetic field. The magnetism created by this electron when moving is due to the relativistic Lorentz transform shown in the last four lines of

http://pdg.lbl.gov/2009/reviews/rpp2009-rev-electromag-relations.pdf

where γ = 1/[1-β2]½ and β = v/c

Bob S

[added] The very last equation in the above URL transforms a transverse radial electric field into a transverse azimuthal magnetic field.
 
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JRPB said:
¿How do modern physicists think about magnetism?

... However, I'm looking for some insight, if there's any to be found.[/I]

There are many books that cover this. You are particularly interested in looking at the implications of special relativity. One good book is as follows, but there are many others.

Maxwell's Equations and the Principles of Electromagnetism , by Richard Fitzpatrick

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1934015202/?tag=pfamazon01-20

I also attached a pdf of an article that gives some insight. The author of this (Daniel V. Schroeder) recommends the book by Edward M. Purcell "Electricity and Magnetism: Berkeley Physics Course Volume 2", 2nd edition, published by McGraw-Hill.
 

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Thanks for the references, both. I'll definitely work my way through the article stevenb attached.
Magnetism and Relativity said:
In the early 1960s, Edward M. Purcell wrote an innovative electromagnetism text (Elec-
tricity and Magnetism: Berkeley Physics Course Volume 2, published by McGraw-Hill,
now in its second edition) in which he used relativistic arguments to derive the existence
of magnetism and radiation. [...]

Heh, bullseye.
 
A related topic where magnetism and relativity crop up is the 'Faraday Paradox'. Spinning an axially magnetised bar magnet about its axis will NOT induce an emf in any nearby object, but DOES induce a radial emf in the bar magnet itself.

There are some weird and wonderful writings about the implications of this in cyberspace and I have thrown in my two cents worth on the topic in a page on my website, with video clips of some simple experiments, which taught me quite a bit. The link is:

http://www.gta.igs.net/~qbristow/Scientific/Faraday_Paradox/main_text.shtml
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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