A derivative identity (Zangwill)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating that the divergence of the cross product of a vector field \(\vec{A}(r)\) and the position vector \(\vec{r}\) equals zero, specifically without employing vector identities. The context is rooted in vector calculus, particularly focusing on divergence and cross products.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants present attempts to express the divergence using Levi-Civita symbols and question the validity of specific steps involving the Kronecker delta. There is also a suggestion to consider the implications of the curl of \(\vec{A}\) being zero.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different aspects of the problem. Some have provided reasoning based on mathematical manipulation, while others are questioning the assumptions made regarding the vector field \(\vec{A}(r)\) and its properties.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of constraints regarding the use of standard calculus identities and the potential existence of a solution manual, which may influence the discussion dynamics.

jack476
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Homework Statement


Without using vector identities, show that ##\nabla \cdot [\vec{A}(r) \times \vec{r}] = 0##.

Homework Equations


The definitions and elementary properties of the dot and cross products in terms of Levi-Civita symbols. The "standard" calculus III identities for the divergence and curl are not allowed.

The Attempt at a Solution


$$
\begin{align*}
\nabla \cdot(\vec{A}\times \vec{r}) &= \epsilon_{ijk}\partial_i(A_jr_k)\\
&= \epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j + \epsilon_{ijk}A_j\partial_ir_k\\
&= \epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j + \epsilon_{ijk}A_j\delta_{ik}
\end{align*}$$

The ##\epsilon_{ijk}A_j\delta_{ik}## term disappears because ##\delta_{ik}\epsilon_{ijk}=0## and the ##\epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j## term disappears because ##\epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j = \epsilon_{ijk}\delta_{ik}r_i\partial_iA_j = 0## for the same reason. Therefore ##\nabla \cdot [\vec{A}(r) \times \vec{r}] = 0##.

Is the use of the Kronecker delta in the final step valid?
 
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jack476 said:

Homework Statement


Without using vector identities, show that ##\nabla \cdot [\vec{A}(r) \times \vec{r}] = 0##.

Homework Equations


The definitions and elementary properties of the dot and cross products in terms of Levi-Civita symbols. The "standard" calculus III identities for the divergence and curl are not allowed.

The Attempt at a Solution


$$
\begin{align*}
\nabla \cdot(\vec{A}\times \vec{r}) &= \epsilon_{ijk}\partial_i(A_jr_k)\\
&= \epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j + \epsilon_{ijk}A_j\partial_ir_k\\
&= \epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j + \epsilon_{ijk}A_j\delta_{ik}
\end{align*}$$

The ##\epsilon_{ijk}A_j\delta_{ik}## term disappears because ##\delta_{ik}\epsilon_{ijk}=0## and the ##\epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j## term disappears because ##\epsilon_{ijk}r_k\partial_iA_j = \epsilon_{ijk}\delta_{ik}r_i\partial_iA_j = 0## for the same reason. Therefore ##\nabla \cdot [\vec{A}(r) \times \vec{r}] = 0##.

Is the use of the Kronecker delta in the final step valid?

Are you sure it does not depend on the form of ##\vec{A}(r)?## If that is the case, can you prove it?
 
Lets cheat a bit and use the vector calculus identity ##\nabla \cdot (A\times B)=(\nabla \times A)\cdot B - A\cdot(\nabla\times B)## then it seems we can prove it but we need that ##\nabla\times A=\vec{0}##. Is this fact about the curl of A given as additional assumption which you omitted to write here?
 
You know there's a solution manual in the internet, right?
 

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