The discussion revolves around the relevance and perception of mathematics PhDs in the current job market, particularly focusing on the divide between pure and applied mathematics. Participants explore the implications of a blog post that critiques the push for students to pursue applied math and statistics, while also reflecting on their own experiences and observations in the workforce.
Participants generally agree on the importance of math skills in the workforce and the need for a broader curriculum that includes applied mathematics. However, there is disagreement regarding the necessity of pushing students into applied fields, as well as differing views on the perceived hierarchy between pure and applied mathematics.
Some discussions reflect unresolved assumptions about the definitions of pure and applied mathematics, as well as the implications of job market trends on educational paths for math students.
jedishrfu said:Here's an interesting blog perspective on the state of Math PhD in today's workforce:
https://ldtopology.wordpress.com/2017/03/18/a-new-mathematicians-apology/
StatGuy2000 said:I too largely agree with the blog perspective. It is certainly true that there is a much more limited number of academic jobs available for all PhD graduates, including math PhDs, but the training that math MS or PhD graduates in particular receive is of increasing importance in a wide range of careers, and not just in finance, security, or statistics/data science.
It is interesting to note how the blog post states that 'We should not push students into applied math and statistics courses or make them into “data scientists”'. I disagree somewhat with this assessment. While I wouldn't state that math students should be pushed into these courses, I do think that undergraduate math students should be strongly encouraged (or required) to include some applied math and statistics courses (along with programming courses) as part of their curriculum, for the following reasons:
1. I think it is important for math students at the undergraduate level to get a sense of the breadth and range of the mathematical sciences as a whole, and how the different areas of mathematics connect to each other. In this respect, having students take a few applied math or statistics courses would broaden the level of understanding in how math connects to the world.
2. In general, it is important for all students to gain a broad range of marketable skills which can complement their education. Including programming or CS courses, along with applied math or statistics courses, in the curriculum is a relatively painless way for math students to gain precisely these type of marketable skills.
dkotschessaa said:I always sensed a vague snobbery towards stats and computer science from the so-called pure math community, which I think needs to die.
StatGuy2000 said:I agree with you that there is a certain snobbery towards "applied" fields such as statistics, computer science, or applied math from the "pure math" community -- attitudes that are unhelpful and should die out.
I would also add that, in my own humble opinion, the line between pure and applied mathematics is artificial and arbitrary. Much research in pure math has spawned applications (e.g. number theory in cryptography, mathematical logic in computer science, more recently algebraic topology in statistics/data science) and developments in what is generally accepted in applied math (e.g. differential equations, dynamical systems, mathematical physics) have subsequently influenced developments in various branches of pure math.