A question on substitution in predicate logic

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of the condition "x doesn't belong to FV(phi)" in predicate logic theorems, particularly in the context of substitution and the implications of free and bound variables. Participants explore the theoretical aspects of this condition as presented in Van Dalen's work, including its significance in various logical equivalences and properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the necessity of the condition "x doesn't belong to FV(phi)" in theorems (i) and (ii), questioning its philosophical implications.
  • Another participant explains that the condition is crucial because quantifiers bind more strongly than binary connectives, and provides examples to illustrate how the condition affects logical equivalences.
  • Counterexamples are presented for theorems (iii) and (iv), demonstrating how substitution can lead to different results if the condition is not met.
  • A later reply suggests that a more formal explanation or proof might be necessary to fully understand the implications of the condition, especially as it appears in Van Dalen's work.
  • One participant offers an intuitive analogy involving the replacement of letters to clarify the substitution process and its dependencies on free variables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the condition in the context of theorems (i) and (ii), but there is no consensus on the necessity or implications of the condition for theorems (iii) and (iv), as counterexamples suggest differing interpretations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of substitution in predicate logic and the varying interpretations of the conditions under which certain properties hold. Specific mathematical steps and proofs are referenced but not fully resolved within the thread.

Mathelogician
Messages
35
Reaction score
0
Hi everybody!
I am confused about what is the role of the condition " xdoesn't belong to FV(phi)" in theorems like (i),(ii) or similarly in (iii) and (iv) .
I know that the philosophy of the condition "the variable z's being free for x in phi" is to avoid the phenomenon that a free variable turn to be bound after aubstituation. But i certainly don't get the point of the first type conditions!
==========================================
Any help would be thanked; the more precise one, the deeper one!
Note: FV(phi):= the set of free variables of phi ; and i am using Van Dalen's Logic and structure.
 

Attachments

  • quest.png
    quest.png
    4.5 KB · Views: 143
Physics news on Phys.org
The reason for the requirement in (i) and (ii) is trivial. The convention in van Dalen is that quantifiers bind more strongly than binary connectives, so (i) means \[\models (\forall x\,\varphi)\leftrightarrow\phi. \tag{*}\] Now, suppose that $x$ is the only free variable in $\varphi$. Then the left-hand side of the equivalence is a closed formula, while the right-hand side has a free $x$. Common sense says that this cannot be a law that holds for all possible $\varphi$. Strictly speaking, under the assumption above (*) may hold for some $\varphi$ because it means \[\models\forall x\, ((\forall x\, \varphi)\leftrightarrow\phi). \tag{**}\] For example, (**) holds when $\varphi$ is $x=0\lor x\ne0$. However, (**) is also false for some $\varphi$, for example, $x=0$. Formally, the condition $x\notin FV(\varphi)$ is used in the proof of (i) and (ii): under this condition, $\varphi[\bar{a}/x]$ is $\varphi$, so \begin{align*}[\![\forall x\,\varphi]\!]_{\mathfrak{A}} :&= \min\{[\![\varphi[\bar{a}/x]]\!]_{\mathfrak{A}} \mid a\in|\mathfrak{A}|\}\\ &= \min\{[\![\varphi]\!]_{\mathfrak{A}} \mid a\in|\mathfrak{A}|\\ &= [\![\varphi]\!]_{\mathfrak{A}}\end{align*}

For (iii) and (iv), I'll just give counterexamples. If $t=x+z$, then $t[0/x]=0+z$, but $t[z/x][0/z]=(z+z)[0/z]=0+0$. A similar thing happens when $\varphi$ is $x+z=0$.

P.S. I did not notice before something that looks like $\Psi$ on the Iranian flag. (Smile) I know that mathematics is done at a pretty high level in Iran.
 
Thanks my friend Evgeny!
I think i got the point (Certainly got the Forml reason at least!) for (i) and (ii).
Though i got the counter examples for (iii) and (iv), a more in deph and formlistic explanation would be more helpful; because as i get toward in Van Dalen's paper, i see more and more uses of such conditions!And about the flag: That sign is an artistic form of the for the word "Allah-الله"(= God, originally Arabic ; and used in Islamic tradition) written in symmetric form; used after the islamic revoloution of iran instead of a "Lion-Sun" sign!
 
Mathelogician said:
Though i got the counter examples for (iii) and (iv), a more in deph and formlistic explanation would be more helpful; because as i get toward in Van Dalen's paper, i see more and more uses of such conditions!
There is nothing tricky here. I am not sure whether you need more intuition about this fact or you need a formal proof. If the former, then you just need to imagine a string of letters, including several x's, written on paper. First you replace all x's with z's and then you replace all z's with a's. The result, obviously, is the same as if you replaced all x's with a's, unless you had z's along with x's in the beginning. In that case, you would replace not only x's, but the original z's as well (during the second step, i.e., when you replaced all z's with a's).

And if you need a "more in-depth and formal explanation", as you write, then you need to look at the proofs of these properties in the book and ask questions here if necessary. In the fourth edition (2008), properties (iii) and (iv) (Corollary 2.5.5) follow from much more flexible and useful property \[(t[s/x])[r/y] = (t[r/y])[s[r/y]/x]\tag{*}\]
when $x\notin FV(r)$ (Lemma 2.5.4), which has a detailed proof. Indeed, set $s=z$ and $r=\bar{a}$; then (*) says \[t[z/x][\bar{a}/z] =t[\bar{a}/z][z[\bar{a}/z]/x] = (\text{since}\ z\notin FV(t))\ t[z[\bar{a}/z]/x] =t[\bar{a}/x].\] It does take some time to develop intuition about (*), but again it is possible by thinking about strings of letters on paper.
 
Thanks again;
I feel better now at least about the intuition i got!
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K