A relation in "Scattering Amplitudes in Gauge Theory....", Elvang et al

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a specific equation (Eq. 5.45) from the book "Scattering Amplitudes in Gauge Theory and Gravity" by Elvang and Huang, focusing on the calculation of scattering amplitudes using momentum twistors. Participants express confusion regarding the validity and proof of the equation, exploring its implications and the necessary mathematical identities involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the last step of Eq. (5.45) and notes that conservation of momentum and the Schouten identity do not clarify the issue.
  • Another participant questions whether the authors of the book can infer the identity in question, suggesting that it should be provable despite their uncertainty.
  • A participant later claims to have resolved their confusion by plugging in specific values for the indices and recognizing mistakes with sign conventions of the epsilon tensor, leading to a proposed proof of the equation.
  • Some participants acknowledge the possibility of mistakes occurring in the derivation process and express relief that a derivation was found.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial validity of the equation, as some express confusion while others claim to have derived it successfully. The discussion reflects both uncertainty and differing perspectives on the proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific mathematical identities and conventions, such as the Schouten identity and the epsilon tensor, but do not resolve the underlying assumptions or dependencies that may affect the validity of the equation.

nrqed
Science Advisor
Messages
3,762
Reaction score
297
If anyone is familiar with the calculation of scattering amplitudes using momentum twistors. I am working through the book "Scattering Amplitudes in Gauge Theory and Gravity" by Elvang and Huang.

I am completely stumped by one step that should be simple. My question is about Eq. (5.45). My question is on the last step, which is

\biggl( |i \rangle^{\dot{b}} ~\langle i-1|_{\dot{a}} ~ - ~ |i-1 \rangle^{\dot{b}} \, \langle i |_{\dot{a}} \biggr) y_i^{\dot{a} a} = \langle i-1, i \rangle \, y_i^{\dot{b}a}

I am stumped, conservation of momentum or the Schouten identity does not help here.

I can provide more details with the various quantities here, but probably someone already quite familiar with the notation will be able to help.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: atyy
Physics news on Phys.org
Do the authors of the book know how to infer this identity?
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Do the authors of the book know how to infer this identity?
I assume they do :-) . But even if they don't, it should be provable. The problem is that I don't even see how it is true, let alone how to prove it. If we just pick some values for the indices a, \dot{b}, I don't see how the two sides are equal. But they use it in the following to obtain key equations, so I am confused.
 
nrqed said:
If anyone is familiar with the calculation of scattering amplitudes using momentum twistors. I am working through the book "Scattering Amplitudes in Gauge Theory and Gravity" by Elvang and Huang.

I am completely stumped by one step that should be simple. My question is about Eq. (5.45). My question is on the last step, which is

\biggl( |i \rangle^{\dot{b}} ~\langle i-1|_{\dot{a}} ~ - ~ |i-1 \rangle^{\dot{b}} \, \langle i |_{\dot{a}} \biggr) y_i^{\dot{a} a} = \langle i-1, i \rangle \, y_i^{\dot{b}a}

I am stumped, conservation of momentum or the Schouten identity does not help here.

I can provide more details with the various quantities here, but probably someone already quite familiar with the notation will be able to help.
I think I have figured it out. Plugging in specific values for the indices actually gives that the two sides are equal, I was making mistakes with the sign conventions of the epsilon tensor.And to prove this, one can do the following: Let's consider the expression inside the parenthesis. First, I contract with an arbitrary bra \langle r |_{\dot{b}} on the lhs to get

<br /> \langle r ,i \rangle ~\langle i-1|_{\dot{a}} ~ - ~ \langle r,i-1 \rangle\, \langle i |_{\dot{a}}

Now , after using \langle r, i \rangle = - \langle i,r \rangle and using the Schouten identity, this is

\langle i-1,i \rangle~ \langle r |_{\dot{a}}
Now I write this as

<br /> \langle i-1,i \rangle~\delta_{\dot{a}}^{ \dot{b}} \, \langle r |_{\dot{b}} <br />
So finally,

<br /> \biggl( |i \rangle^{\dot{b}} ~\langle i-1|_{\dot{a}} ~ - ~ |i-1 \rangle^{\dot{b}} \, \langle i |_{\dot{a}} \biggr) <br /> = \langle i-1,i \rangle~\delta_{\dot{a}}^{ \dot{b}} <br />

This completes the proof.

Cheers
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: ohwilleke and atyy
nrqed said:
I assume they do :-) . But even if they don't, it should be provable. The problem is that I don't even see how it is true, let alone how to prove it. If we just pick some values for the indices a, \dot{b}, I don't see how the two sides are equal. But they use it in the following to obtain key equations, so I am confused.
Well mistakes can and will happen...
But happy for you that you found a derivation.
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Well mistakes can and will happen...
But happy for you that you found a derivation.
I see your point. This is why I had checked that they had used exactly that expression in their following steps to obtain other results.

Cheers!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
7K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
14K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K