A supplementary length contraction question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of length contraction and time dilation in the context of muons traveling towards Earth. Participants explore the implications of these relativistic effects on the observed behavior of muons and their half-lives as they traverse the atmosphere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that muons, due to their high speed, experience time dilation, resulting in a longer measured half-life in the lab frame, which allows more muons to reach the ground.
  • The same participant proposes that length contraction would cause muons to appear flattened in the direction of motion when viewed from Earth, leading to a discussion about their shape.
  • Another participant questions the initial inquiry about the contraction of the muon, suggesting that while the muon is squashed in the Earth frame, the significant effect is time dilation rather than length contraction.
  • A later reply clarifies that from the muon's perspective, it does not perceive any travel distance, as it is at rest in its own frame, and similarly, the Earth appears contracted to the muon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of length contraction versus time dilation, indicating that there is no consensus on which effect is more impactful in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of length contraction and time dilation without resolving the nuances of how these concepts interact in different frames of reference. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the effects as experienced by the muon and observed from Earth.

Glenn G
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Sorry community, I know I have another outstanding relativity question but something else is currently troubling me.

What got me thinking was the question of muons moving towards earth. Now according to their half lives very few of them should make it through 12Km of atmosphere...

ANALYSIS FROM GROUND
Now due to t = (gamma) t0 as they are moving very fast in a lab frame their measured half life is longer so it makes sense that more make it to ground level.

Due to L = L0/(gamma) If the muons were like spheres (just for sake of argument) then their dimension in the direction of motion would be squashed whereas dimension perpendicular to this wouldn't be ( so would the spherical particle appear like a flattened disc)?

FROM POINT OF ViEW OF MUON
Wouldn't feel as though it is really living any longer still experience the 2.2 micro seconds half life (or whatever it was?)

Length contraction: due to its motion it would feel as though it had only traveled L/(gamma) so ie less than the 12Km that would be measured in the lab frame.So my main question is about these two 'types' of length contraction one of the moving object itself as viewed from Earth and then the length contraction of the journey to Earth as experienced by the moving muon?

Sorry to bother I promise I'm trying to get it sorted in my head!
G.
 
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I'm not sure what your question exactly is regarding the contraction of the muon, as seen from Earth. Yes, in general the muon is squashed (as seen from Earth) by the same gamma as the travel distance is as seen by the muon, but the squashing of the muon as seen from Earth has no meaningful effect. It's the time dilation that makes the big difference in that frame of reference.
 
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Thanks rumborak, I just wanted to check.
 
Glenn G said:
Length contraction: due to its motion it would feel as though it had only traveled L/(gamma) so ie less than the 12Km that would be measured in the lab frame
To be precise, it wouldn't feel as though it had traveled at all since it is at rest in its frame. Instead, just as the muon is a flattened disk in the Earth frame, so the Earth is a flattened disk in the muon frame. It takes less than 2.2 us for the flattened atmosphere to pass by the muon.
 
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