"A system tries to minimize total potential energy"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the principle of systems minimizing potential energy, particularly in the context of objects launched from Earth at velocities exceeding escape velocity. Participants explore the applicability of this principle to different types of systems, including bound systems and energy exchanges.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the principle of minimizing potential energy should be qualified for systems that can escape gravitational influence, suggesting a need for rigorous definitions.
  • Another participant asserts that the principle applies only to bound systems that can irreversibly exchange energy with another system.
  • A third participant provides a technical example using a harmonic oscillator to illustrate energy conservation in a closed system, detailing the relationship between kinetic and potential energy over time.
  • One participant critiques the anthropomorphizing of systems, arguing that energy transfer is a straightforward process dictated by the system's constraints.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the principle of minimizing potential energy, with no consensus reached on how to rigorously define or qualify the principle in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of bound and unbound systems, as well as the conditions under which energy exchanges occur. The discussion also highlights the complexity of energy conservation in different scenarios.

Swamp Thing
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While reading this thread on Stack Exchange... https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...oes-a-system-try-to-minimize-potential-energy ... a question came to mind : -

Say an object is launched away from Earth at a velocity greater than the escape velocity. This system will not end up with its potential energy less than the initial value. Apparently, therefore, we need to qualify the principle of "tendency towards minimum potential energy" so as to exclude such cases? If so, how would we do that rigorously?
 
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As far as I know it only applies to bound systems that can irreversibly exchange energy with another system
 
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There's energy conservation for a closed system. Usually the kinetic and potential energy both change with time but such that the total energy stays constant. Take the harmonic oscillator as an example:
$$m \ddot{x}=-D x.$$
The general solution is
$$x(t)=x_0 \cos(\omega t -\varphi_0),$$
where the amplitude, ##x_0##, and "phase", ##\varphi_0## are integration constants, and ##\omega=\sqrt{D/m}##.

The kinetic and potential energies are
$$T=\frac{m}{2} \dot{x}^2, \quad V=\frac{D}{2} x^2.$$
As a function of time you get
$$T=\frac{m \omega^2}{2} \sin^2(\omega t -\varphi_0), \quad V=\frac{D}{2} x_0^2 \cos^2(\omega t-\varphi_0).$$
Now ##m \omega^2=D## and thus the total energy
$$E=T+V=\frac{D}{2} x_0^2 [\sin^2(\omega t-\varphi_0) + \cos^2(\omega t-\varphi_0)]=\frac{D}{2} x_0^2=\text{const}.$$
 
You're anthropomorphizing inanimate systems. They hate it when you do that.

If you have a system with two energy reservoirs, of any kind (potential and kinetic is but one example), and all the energy is in one, the only thing the system can do with the energy is move it to the other. There is nothing more to this than "if you're all the way to the left, the only direction you can move is to the right".

Swamp Thing said:
While reading this thread on Stack Exchange..
Is that's confusing you, maybe you should go elsewhere.
 
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