Ac coupling and offset voltage in amplifier

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of offset voltage and AC coupling in operational amplifier (op-amp) configurations. Participants explore how offset voltage influences the output when an AC signal is applied, particularly in the context of bypass capacitors and specific examples from textbooks.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how an offset voltage of 0.1 mV at the non-inverting input affects the coupling of an AC signal through a capacitor.
  • Another participant asserts that a 0.1 mV offset at the inverting input results in a corresponding output offset, indicating that the DC offset will always be present alongside the AC signal.
  • A participant suggests the possibility of using bypass capacitors to mitigate the effect of the offset on the AC signal.
  • Another participant counters that bypass capacitors cannot eliminate the DC offset, likening it to having a constant voltage source at the op-amp input.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding a textbook example that neglects the inherent offset voltage when calculating maximum input signals, questioning the validity of the example's assumptions.
  • Another participant notes that offsets typically limit the achievable gain in practical applications, mentioning that while cancellation techniques exist, they introduce additional complexity.
  • A participant references a specific textbook problem regarding maximum input amplitude with and without capacitive coupling, providing numerical values for discussion.
  • Another participant raises a question about the output voltage due to bias currents in an integrator configuration, seeking clarification on the contributions of bias currents to the output voltage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of bypass capacitors in addressing offset voltage. There is also uncertainty regarding the treatment of offset voltage in textbook examples, with no consensus reached on the implications of these examples.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in textbook examples, particularly regarding the neglect of offset voltage in calculations, and the complexity introduced by techniques to cancel offsets in practical applications.

sandy.bridge
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Hey all,

Just a question concerning the image I have provided. If I have an offset of 0.1 mV at the non inverting input, how exactly does coupling take effect in this set up? If I input an ac signal, it will pass through the cap, but will the op-amp not still experience the offset voltage?

smOvE.png
 
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Ignoring input bias current for the moment, a 0.1V offset at the - input means there is a 0.1mv output. That dc offset will always be there. A signal input through C2 will have that DC signal imposed on it.

Think of it this way. The opamp will output whatever is required to maintain 0.1V between + and -. Input bias currents cause a voltage drop across R2, but the effect is the same.
 
Is it not possible to utilize bypass capacitors such that the offset does not offset the input ac signal?
 
No bypass caps don't work that way. meBigGuy is right. Another way to think of it is you have a 0.1mV DC voltage source in front of one of your op amp inputs. How is a bypass cap going to do anything about that?
 
That's what I figured. There is an example in my book, however, that neglects the offset voltage that is inherent to that particular op-amp. For example, they had a nominal gain of 1000, an offset voltage of 0.03 V, and they asked the maximum input signal that would result in an ouput of 10V peak amplitude. They answered with 0.01V, which does not accout for the dc offset. I found this odd considering the dc offset was given at the beginning of the example. Just thought I would ask in case I was missing something. Thanks.
 
No worries. Offsets typically set the real-world limit to the gain you can get out of a closed-loop voltage amplifier. You can do things to cancel them but that adds complexity, of course.
 
Perfect, thanks again!
 
sandy.bridge said:
For example, they had a nominal gain of 1000, an offset voltage of 0.03 V, and they asked the maximum input signal that would result in an ouput of 10V peak amplitude. They answered with 0.01V, which does not accout for the dc offset.
Maybe the OP-AMP was powered by rails of ± 45V?
 
Here, I will display the question at hand word for word. "A non-inverting amplifier with a closed-loop gain of 1000 is designed using an op-amp having an input offset voltage of 5 mV and output saturation levels of +/-13V. What is the maximum amplitude of the sine wave that can be applied at the input without capacitive coupling and with it?" The figure with capacitive coupling was provided above already.

The answers provided by both the textbook and my professor were 8 mV without coupling, 13 mV with it.

Another question regarding the output voltage due to bias currents for the integrator with feedback resistor [itex]R_f[/itex]: my textbook states that the output voltage due to the bias currents is [itex]v_o=R_fI_{OS}[/itex], however, if non-inverting input is grounded, the only current contributing to the output voltage is the bias current entering the inverting node. Hence, [itex]v_o=R_fI_{B^-}[/itex]. What exactly am I missing here?
 
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