Adam's Circles: Splitting & Connecting Segments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a geometric problem involving a circle of radius 1 centered at the origin. Participants explore the lengths of segments drawn from the origin to the circle's boundary, as well as altitudes to the x-axis and additional segments extending from the bottommost point of the circle. The focus is on calculating the product of the lengths of these segments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Adam draws 6 segments from the origin to the boundary of the circle, splitting the upper semicircle into 7 equal pieces.
  • Participants question whether the final calculation should involve a product or a sum of the lengths of the segments.
  • One participant provides an approximation for the product of the lengths, suggesting a connection to sine functions and expressing it as a product involving sine values.
  • Another participant confirms the initial problem statement and the approach taken.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is some uncertainty regarding whether to calculate a product or a sum of the segment lengths. While one participant asserts the product is correct, others express confusion and seek clarification.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention approximations and exact expressions, indicating that there may be unresolved issues regarding the mathematical steps involved in deriving the product of the segment lengths.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying geometry, trigonometry, or mathematical problem-solving techniques, particularly in relation to segment lengths and products in circular geometry.

maxkor
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Adam has a circle of radius $1$ centered at the origin.

- First, he draws $6$ segments from the origin to the boundary of the circle, which splits the upper (positive $y$) semicircle into $7$ equal pieces.

- Next, starting from each point where a segment hit the circle, he draws an altitude to the $x$-axis.

- Finally, starting from each point where an altitude hit the $x$-axis, he draws a segment directly away from the bottommost point of the circle $(0,-1)$, stopping when he reaches the boundary of the circle.

What is the product of the lengths of all $18$ segments Adam drew?
 

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Beer induced query follows.
maxkor said:
... What is the product of the lengths of all $18$ segments Adam drew?
Product or sum?
 
jonah said:
Beer induced query follows.

Product or sum?
Product.
 
Just to check whether I'm thinking along the right lines, should the answer be
$\dfrac{7^3}{169\cdot2^{12}}$
?
 
Beer induced reaction follows.
Opalg said:
Just to check whether I'm thinking along the right lines, should the answer be
$\dfrac{7^3}{169\cdot2^{12}}$
?
I get the same; although mine's just an approximation, 0.000495504345414
Curious as to how you got an exact expression.
Did you use the math god Wolframalpha?
I was under the impression that while the endpoints of the green lines can be epressed exactly, I settled for an approximation. I guess I didn't took it far enough.
The product of the red and blue lines are of course
$1^6*\bigg[{\displaystyle \prod_{n=1}^{6} \sin\left(\frac{180n}{7}\right)}\bigg]$
 
maxkor said:
Adam has a circle of radius $1$ centered at the origin.

- First, he draws $6$ segments from the origin to the boundary of the circle, which splits the upper (positive $y$) semicircle into $7$ equal pieces.

- Next, starting from each point where a segment hit the circle, he draws an altitude to the $x$-axis.

- Finally, starting from each point where an altitude hit the $x$-axis, he draws a segment directly away from the bottommost point of the circle $(0,-1)$, stopping when he reaches the boundary of the circle.

What is the product of the lengths of all $18$ segments Adam drew?
The six points on the semicircle have coordinates $\bigl(\cos\frac{k\pi}7,\sin\frac{k\pi}7\bigr)\ (1\leqslant k\leqslant6)$. The red segments all have length $1$ and the $k$th blue segment has length $\sin\frac{k\pi}7$.

The $k$th green segment lies on the line joining $(0,-1)$ and $\bigl(\cos\frac{k\pi}7,0\bigr)$, which has equation $x = (y+1)\cos\frac{k\pi}7$. That meets the semicircle when $ (y+1)^2\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7 + y^2 = 1$, which leads after a bit of simplification to the point $$(x,y) = \Bigl(\frac{2\cos\frac{k\pi}7}{1+\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7},\frac{1-\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7}{1+\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7}\Bigr).$$ So if $d$ is the length of the $k$th green segment then $$d^2 = \Bigl(\frac{2\cos\frac{k\pi}7}{1+\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7} - \cos\tfrac{k\pi}7\Bigr)^2 + \frac{\bigl(1-\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7\bigr)^2}{\bigl(1+\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7\bigr)^2}.$$ Again after some simplification, this becomes $d^2 = \frac{\bigl(1-\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7\bigr)^2}{1+\cos^2\frac{k\pi}7}$, which I prefer to write as $d^2 = \frac{\sin^4\frac{k\pi}7}{2 - \sin^2\frac{k\pi}7}$.

Putting together everything done so far, the product of the lengths of the 18 segments is $$\prod_{k=1}^6 \frac{\sin^3\frac{k\pi}7}{\sqrt{2 - \sin^2\frac{k\pi}7}}.$$ To evaluate that product, notice that the numbers $\sin\frac{k\pi}7\ (1\leqslant k\leqslant6)$, together with $0$, are the solutions of the equation $\sin(7\theta) = 0$. But (either by working with trig. identities or by using de Moivre's theorem) $$\sin(7\theta) = 7\sin\theta - 56\sin^3\theta + 112\sin^5\theta - 64\sin^7\theta.$$ After discarding the solution $\sin\theta=0$, you see that $\sin\frac{k\pi}7\ (1\leqslant k\leqslant6)$ are the solutions of $7 - 56s^2 + 112s^4 - 64s^6 = 0$. The product of the roots of that equation is $\frac{7}{64}$. Therefore $$\prod_{k=1}^6 \sin^3\frac{k\pi}7 = \frac{7^3}{2^{18}}.$$ Next, putting $x = 2 - s^2$ you see that $2 - \sin^2\frac{k\pi}7\ (1\leqslant k\leqslant6)$ are the solutions of $7 - 56(2-x) + 112(2-x)^2 - 64(2-x)^3 = 0$. That simplifies to $64x^3 - 272x^2 + 376x - 169 = 0$, and the product of the roots is $\frac{169}{64}$. Each value of $x$ corresponds to two (equal) values of $s$, so we should square that answer. But then we want to take the square root (getting back to where we started from), for the formula $$\prod_{k=1}^6 \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 - \sin^2\frac{k\pi}7}} = \frac{169}{64}.$$ Finally, $$\prod_{k=1}^6 \frac{\sin^3\frac{k\pi}7}{\sqrt{2 - \sin^2\frac{k\pi}7}} = \frac{7^3/2^{18}}{169/2^6} = \frac{7^3}{169\cdot2^{12}}.$$
 
It' correct.
 

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