Americans lacking in geographic knowledge

[Schrodinger's Dog]

The mosque bombings a few months back, the Israel - Palestine war of 1948, World war III, Woodstock, noise wise anyway, my two younger cousins in a fight wholesale mayhem and noise wise.

 

[Gokul43201]

I have to agree with this. The important things I learned in geography didn't include memorizing state capitals or the location of every country in the world or every capital of every country, but did include how to read a map. Some of my friends were great a memorizing those things; they could just rattle off state capitals and such. It's not worth memorizing tons of picky details that can be easily looked up...in any field. Know general concepts...be able to orient yourself on a map, have general ideas of where a country or state is located, and then look it up if you can't remember that one and need to know to get yourself there.

Moonbear, the test doesn't ask you to point out the location of Cheyenne, WY. It's asking you to point out Louisiana and New York State. And if you can't find the intersection of the Mississippi river and the Gulf coast, that wouldn't speak very highly of map reading skills either.

 

[Gokul43201]

The mosque bombings a few months back, the Israel - Palestine war of 1948, World war III, Woodstock, noise wise anyway, my two younger cousins in a fight wholesale mayhem and noise wise.

Good thing you clarified. With over 75 injured and about 10 killed from bombings last monday, I wouldn't call it relatively peaceful compared to nearly any other part of the world.

 

[arildno]

Well, I disagree, because you guys are looking at the trees and missing the forrest.

Notice that the survey put in CONTEXT the question they asked. I mean, they're not asking for someone to point to the island of Samoa, or the location of some obscure places. They're asking for places which (i) have impacted our lives (ii) have been in the news A LOT (iii) have been a major topic of conversation for the majority of us.

To me, considering the impact of Hurricane Katrina to the US, and NOT knowing where the state is, shows an utter ignorance and lack of caring of the news. It shows that even for events that have significant impact to our lives, some people are content to simply have a superficial knowledge of the situation. They are too lazy to even care where it is occurring in relations to where they are. Just think, of they can't even bother to even LOOK at where these places are, how much do you think they'll bother in figuring out the intricate issues surrounding these things? How many of those who can't point out where Isreal is located actually put in any effort to figure out why we are so involved in that region in the first place?

These are symptoms, folks, not the cause! Symptoms of a contentment for mediocrity. And then we complain that these politicians are liars and how bad things are! When people are content to simply get their info from sound bites and fancy messages with bells and whistles, then this is what we all deserve!

Zz.

I fully agree with this. It IS serious; sorry for being jocular about it in the first place.

 

[Francis M]

I agree with ZapperZ on this.
Given the context that most things asked about in the poll were recent and ongoing events I'd call the performance of the respondents pathetic at best and IMO smacks of general laziness and disintrest to things that don't immediatly effect them (it's not right in front of my nose and happening now so who cares?). I think it's an indication of a short attention span which spins off into the possibility of not being good long term thinkers or long term problem solvers.
Granted that while it may not be important to know/memorize the capitals of all 50 states or of all the nations of the world, IMO it is important to know general geography (and history, another thing that I think is lacking in most peoples general knowledge).

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Good thing you clarified. With over 75 injured and about 10 killed from bombings last monday, I wouldn't call it relatively peaceful compared to nearly any other part of the world.

Indeed compared to Monday it is relatively peaceful too

Those who do not take note of history are doomed to repeat it:

Someone I can't remember a long time ago who is now dead I believe

Although a friend of mine tells me one of the US presidents once said that was bunk, which kind of speaks volumes.

History, politics, geography and religion(US and world) Are any of these taught in the US and to what level? I know that most are taught in the UK from 5 to 10 year olds and then you can chose to study them 'till you leave school at 16.

Would a child be exposed to any of these? Growing up I was exposed to all but politics in primary school, which I also managed to avoid in secondary school by chosing classics(somewhat a rarity of a subject anyway) instead of history, geography or music/art, religous education(R.E) There was no politics in secondary school although it is part of other subjects, at least not when I was there, you could study it at college though 16-18 if you were interested.

How would you go about getting the schools to reform anyway?

It does seem odd to me though that a country which has amongst the brightest academics in the world has such a poor pre college education system, not that the UK's is the best in the world, but it still seems head and shoulders above the US's ATM.

 

[bomba923]

From my perspective, the "contentment with mediocrity", as ZapperZ mentioned, is just one effect of:

1) Students not accepting individual responsibility for their lack of academic competence, accusing teachers or some BS demographic factors to their "incompetence".
*Also, think of it from the political viewpoint. Remember that parents are indeed voting citizens , and whichever politicians claims incompetence/laziness is not "poor Johnny's (or "your kid's")" fault...are likely to be the parents' choice!

2) Grade inflation. When teachers give out "A's" and "B's" just for coming to class everyday, or just showing "effort", the result is a false impression of competence perceived by those looking at students' transcripts, and by the students themselves.

A common belief among students/parents is that students are somehow "entitled" competence due to "hard work"/effort. When students don't gain the competence ...well, grades are the next best thing! (because unlike competence, grades can be faked). Read my letter below:

Dear Nanette Asimov,

I am a high school student at George Washington High School, part of the San Francisco Unified School District.
From my experience, serious grade inflation is ubiquitous among all courses and grade levels (9-12, freshman to senior), and I propose a solution to this problem.

"Grade inflation" includes not only "grading on an easy curve," but also "grading without curve, but on criteria that (often apparently) fails to accurately describe or reflect students' competence, knowledge, and ability." Often, that is the case among high school teachers, which, in my opinion, confuse "effort" and "competence".

Even in "honors" classes, particularly the humanities, a grade is often only 20-30% tests, and the rest is "effort"--i.e., homework, classwork, participation, etc. For an "organized binder with over 'x' quantity of notes", students can raise their grades from C's to A's, from D's to B's, and so on. For "doing all of the homework", students can expect similar results. Unfortunately, no "binder," no matter how "nice-looking and organized", no "art poster illustrating World War II", can substitute for a critical knowledge and understanding of the course material. It does not matter how well a student can "illustrate a soldier" or "how many pages of notes a student can write" or "how neatly can a student organize a binder" if they lack competence, knowledge, and understanding of the course material.

A critical effect of serious grading founded on faulty criteria is the "expectance of competence derived from blind effort and inflated grades." In classes of mathematics and the sciences, where tests and exams generally count for no less than ~70% of a student's grade, students often complain of low grades (primarily based on test scores), demanding "higher grades" because they "did" all of their homework and labs, and "studied for hours". Neither is an acceptable reason to improve grades. Mere "completion," and especially the "completion of homework and classwork" is ultimately worthless if students cannot (and do not learn to) focus their abilities individually in an environment devoid of "notes, resources, peers"...an environment consisting only of a pencil and the test paper.

Unfortunately, the effect of grading directly on "effort" is, most apparently, a retardation in one's "effort" and a sense of anti-intellectualism. When one student has to complete "four" skill sheets and study for "five hours" for a chemistry test, while another student needs just read the text for an hour or so to perform equally or (often times) better on a test, it is not fair to downgrade the latter student for a "lack of effort". Quite often, bright and high-scoring students are actually downgraded for a "lack of effort" in a high school course. Underperforming and incompetent students may argue "It's not fair that he/she's is more efficient than us," and the teacher often willingly takes pity on those students. No longer is "competence" required; all that is required for an "A" is effort, and thus "everybody passes". Simply grade students on "how many review sheets did you complete" and "how neat is your binder" and therefore, "everybody can succeed," even those ridiculously unprepared for the course. Not only are such rewards for mere "effort" undoubtedly anti-intellectual, they can, and often do, remove the entire purpose of effort---to learn and gain competence.

The final problem I will address here is the perceived "nature" of effort.
-Joe is preparing for a test, and has worked on 62 problems in factoring. Unfortunately, the test also includes "completing-the-square problems." Joe spends all of his time working ""hard"" on the factoring problems, but fails the test because he forgot to learn how to complete-the-square. And rightfully so does he fail that test. Without a doubt, Joe "worked hard"; unfortunately, he did not "work smart". The next day, he demands a raise in grades due to his "hard work". By no means does Joe deserve a higher grade; not because he didn't work "hard" (which he undoubtedly did), but because he failed to work "smart" and efficiently. A sad case for any teacher deciding grades. Worse, when this case does arise, the student who worked "less hard" but aced the test (and gain knowledge, skills, and competence) is often penalized with a grade based on 20-30% tests, and 70-80% "effort"---for what is, essentially, "achieving more (competence, knowledge, and ability) with less effort" and downplaying the idea that "(blind and often useless) 'effort' in itself will bestow competence."

Conclusion:
Effort is a means of acquiring (the goals of) competence, knowledge, and understanding. In itself, it is not a goal. How much is needed and how it should be executed varies from individual to individual. We must not grade students on the "quantity of effort", but rather on the quality of their effort, which is reflected in class tests and the SAT, a measure of how much competence, knowledge, and skills the students, both as students and as individuals, possess.

Regarding your article, such a grade quota is obviously ill-conceived if it does not include any way to check teachers' academic honesty in assigning grades. Even now, there are no checks on teachers to ensure the academic credibility of their grade assignments! (that they assign grades based on the students' competence and academic ability).

My solution plans to change that. When we complain that certain reforms fail to consider "root issues", we often forget that grade inflation itself is a root issue, and is nowhere far from #1 on that list (I personally consider the most important of the "root issues").

My solution is the first post in this thread, at https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104494

*Just some added info:

~Poor parental involvement, another issue with grade inflation:
>Honestly now, what parent/student will complain about the "lack of rigor" / "quality of instruction" in academic courses if they see a nice "A" or "B" on a transcript? And no, unless you are perhaps an AP teacher, there are no checks performed on teachers to ensure that the grades they assign are academically honest. Heck...no one will check teachers as long as students/parents don't complain, and dishing out A's and B's is an effective way to eliminate those problems. Sad but true

How would you go about getting the schools to reform anyway?

I have an excellent educational reform plan here :
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104494

 

[theCandyman]

Excellent letter, bomba923.

Also, I ran across another video. It is almost as sad as the one posted earlier: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1103776590118655660&q=Women%27s+Suffrage&pl=true .

 

[Mk]

Although that letter is very good, I have no idea why you wrote that to a science fiction magazine.

 

[bomba923]

Although that letter is very good, I have no idea why you wrote that to a science fiction magazine.

"SF Chronicle" = "San Francisco Chronicle", a common daily newspaper
(not science fiction )

 

[Mk]

Oh, heh. Also, the person you were writing to's last name was Asimov.

 

[usa1981]

Geography is not properly touhgt if it is tought at all.

 

[Rach3]

Geography is not properly touhgt if it is tought at all.

Neither is spelling.

 

[usa1981]

Neither is spelling.

I just have trouble with my spelling especially when I am in a hurry my father thinks I spend to much time on the internet. He has been throwing me wheneve he catches me on the internet.

 

[loseyourname]

You Yanks are really backward, I can point LA out on a map and NY and Washington and Pakistan and Australia and Tsurinam and Nepal and even some regions of countries and know many capitals, I once memorised them all for a bet though so that's not really a fair comparison(as I still remember some of them) But then Geography is part of the national curriculum in England(ie you have to study it) For me knowing the capiltal of countries and precise locations isn't all that important.

All of that is taught. I recall memorizing all of the state capitals, nearly all of the world capitals, their locations on maps, the locations of countries on maps. I took for granted the locations of states. I can still pretty easily remember all of these things as well. Then again, I spent time studying the Thomas Guides growing up, and whenever my parents got lost on the road, I knew exactly where we were and could tell them where to go. Maybe I'm just weird like that. Heck, I know all of the counties in Ireland.

Still, the point being, this is taught, or at least it was in the 90s. I can't imagine the curriculum has changed all that much. The bigger problem is that people cram to memorize things for a test, and then immediately forget it. Honestly, though, I have to agree that knowing the locations of things on an unmarked map is not an important skill. I just remember everything I learn for whatever reason.

My girlfriend (don't mean to indict her - she does post here) can't point out many US states on a map, but that doesn't mean she's ignorant of what's happening in them. She doesn't know that the capital of Louisiana is Baton Rouge, that their state university's mascot is the Tiger (alternatively, the Bayou Bengal), that the state is named after the king of France, that it was originally claimed for France by a man named LaSalle, that it became a US territory in 1801 and a state in 1811, or that the Port of South Louisiana is the largest volume port in the western hemisphere, or that the pivotal battle of Milliken's Bend, in which Grant's Vicksburg campaign was cemented a success, resulting in his being put in charge of all Union forces, took place there, all facts that I can pull off the top of my head, simply because, as I said, I remember damn near everything I learn, be it from school, casual conversation, reading, television, whatever. She does, however, know a heck of a lot more about what happened and what is continuing to happen regarding Katrina.