Amplitude and Energy: A Simple Explanation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between the amplitude of a sound wave and its energy, specifically exploring why energy is proportional to the square of the amplitude. Participants are attempting to provide a simple, calculus-free explanation suitable for a musical acoustics class, while also addressing potential misunderstandings in the explanation provided.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that using a simple harmonic motion (SHM) model, the energy is proportional to the square of the amplitude based on work done to start the vibration.
  • Another participant suggests that explaining the concept using Hooke's Law might be more effective, although it may not be necessary for the course level.
  • A participant challenges the initial explanation, pointing out a misuse of notation regarding acceleration and velocity, emphasizing the importance of correct definitions in the context of energy and amplitude.
  • One participant acknowledges the error pointed out and expresses a desire to clarify the explanation given to the class.
  • Another participant reflects on their previous explanation given to the class and seeks advice on how to recover from potential misunderstandings without losing credibility, questioning the reasoning behind the energy being proportional to the square of the amplitude versus the absolute value of the amplitude.
  • A suggestion is made to emphasize the final formula E ∝ A² in future explanations while clarifying that the intermediate equations used previously cannot all be applied directly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity and correctness of the initial explanation, with some acknowledging errors and others questioning the rationale behind certain claims. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to explain the relationship between amplitude and energy.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the initial explanation due to potential misuse of notation and assumptions about the audience's understanding of related concepts, such as Hooke's Law. The discussion also highlights the need for careful communication of foundational principles in physics.

DaydreamNation
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I tried to come up with a simple calculus-free explanation for why the energy in a sound wave is proportional to the square of the wave's amplitude for my musical acoustics class. I think this makes sense, and seems to just be an elaboration of what Donald Hall writes, but I haven't seen it explained this way elsewhere so please let me know if there are some problems here.

If we use the SHM model and imagine a ball on a spring, A (amplitude) is the maximum displacement. To start the vibrating system, the ball must be displaced by A.

Then, how much work is done when starting the vibration?
W=Fd and d=A
F=ma
a=v/t
v=d/t
a=d/t2
F=md/t2
W=md2/t2 or mA2/t2
Energy transferred = work done
.˙. E is proportional to A2
 
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It might work better if I explain it with Hooke's Law but they haven't learned this yet and don't really need it for most of the course.
 
DaydreamNation said:
I tried to come up with a simple calculus-free explanation for why the energy in a sound wave is proportional to the square of the wave's amplitude for my musical acoustics class. <snip>
a=v/t
v=d/t
a=d/t2
<snip>

Argh! Don't do this! first, a≠v/t, a=Δv/Δt= (v_f-v_i)/(t_f-t_i), and they are not the same, even if you set v_i = 0 and t_i = 0. I realize you are trying to provide some foundations behind the formulas, but this abuse of notation has significant consequences.

A better explanation could be that since the pressure amplitude can have negative values with respect to a zero-point but the energy carried by sound cannot be negative, the energy is proportional to the amplitude^2, which is always positive.
 
Yes, I see the error. Thanks for that.
 
Throwing this out here for anyone: the problem is I already gave the class that explanation of E ∝A2 yesterday; I was perhaps feeling hubristic and rushed into it before I got replies on the thread; will not do that sort of thing again. (I did say it was crude and simplified, and that they wouldn't solve problems with those intermediate equations.) Any suggestions on how to recover and avoid future problems with this, without losing too much face? (Hall's explanation in the textbook is that if you pull a mass on a spring twice as far, you also have to pull it twice as hard; I was really just trying to elaborate on why his explanation makes sense. Does it??) I'm not sure I totally get your explanation: why would the need for a positive value mean that E ∝A2 as opposed to e.g. E∝|A|?

:(
 
Last edited:
Btw, the textbook is Hall, Donald. Musical Acoustics.

Maybe it's just a matter of emphasizing the final formula E ∝A2 going forward, and reiterating that the equations in the other explanation can't all be used, that it was a way to try to give an explanation for something?

:(
 

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