Amplitude of an electromagnetic wave

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of amplitude in electromagnetic (EM) waves, particularly in relation to intensity, energy, and the dual wave-particle nature of light. Participants explore both classical and quantum perspectives on how amplitude relates to intensity and the behavior of photons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that amplitude is linked to intensity or brightness in the classical view of light, while others argue that intensity is determined by the number of photons in the quantum view.
  • One participant presents a formula relating intensity to amplitude, indicating they are not independent variables.
  • Another participant claims that if one considers the energy of light, they are treating it as a single photon, making amplitude meaningless in that context.
  • It is noted that an EM wave has both electric and magnetic components, each with its own amplitude, and the ratio of these amplitudes relates to the impedance of the medium.
  • Concerns are raised about the compatibility of treating light as both a wave and a collection of photons, suggesting that this mixed model may not be fruitful for understanding EM interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of amplitude in relation to intensity and energy, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of amplitude and intensity, as well as the assumptions underlying the classical versus quantum views of light. The relationship between wave behavior and photon interactions is also not fully resolved.

jaydnul
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Lets take visible light for example. The frequency/wavelength determines the amount of energy and the type of wave(micro,radio,gamma ect.) The intensity or brightness is determined by the amount of photons. So what does the amplitude determine?
 
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The intensity of an EM wave is written in terms of the amplitude:

<br /> I=cn \frac{\epsilon_0}{2}\left|E_0\right|^2<br />

so these aren't really independent things.
 
If you know it's energy then you are treating it as a single photon. Amplitude is meaningless.

If you know it's wavelength then you are treating it as a wave. As an EM wave it has both an E and an M component, each has it's own amplitude, the ratio of the E and M amplitudes is the impedance Zo of the material through which the EM wave is propagating. For free space Zo = 120 * Pi
 
lundyjb said:
The intensity or brightness is determined by the amount of photons.

This is according to the quantum view of light.

So what does the amplitude determine?

It determines the intensity or brightness, in the classical view of light.
 
If you want to consider photons at the same time as waves then you have a problem. A photon is not just a small point. It is just an amount of energy that the wave is carrying - or, at least, with which the wave interacts with objects. In pretty well every respect, it is the wave nature that dominates - except when there is an interaction involved. Any wave will not interact with a 'system' instantaneously. It takes time for the receiver (atom, molecule or TV set) to respond - several, or even many cycles of the wave are involved (depending on the 'Q' of the system) so how can this relate to a model involving a 'shower' of little photons, each one with its own 'phase'? This is a mixed model and it is neither fish nor fowl but I understand that it is attractive at a stage in the learning of the way EM works, despite being not very fruitful (imho).
 

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