Amplitude of oscillation of a mass which is the pivot of a pendulum

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the amplitude of oscillation in a system involving two masses, where one mass acts as a pivot for a pendulum. The participants explore the conservation of mechanical energy and linear momentum to analyze the motion of the masses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of conservation laws to derive expressions for velocities and amplitudes. Questions arise regarding the relationship between the amplitudes of the two masses and the definition of amplitude in the context of their motion.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the relationship between the amplitudes of the two masses, with some participants questioning the assumptions made about the center of mass and its implications for the amplitude of motion. Guidance is offered regarding the interpretation of amplitude, but no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discrepancies between their calculations and the text being referenced, particularly regarding the expected amplitude of motion for one of the masses. The discussion includes considerations of the center of mass and its position during oscillation.

lorenz0
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Homework Statement
Two bodies (see figure) are connected by an ideal rope of length ##l = 0.9 m##. The body with mass ##m_1 = 2 kg## is free to slide without friction along a rigid horizontal rod. The second body has mass ##m_2 = 3 kg##. The bodies are both initially stationary in the indicated position (##\alpha = 60 °##) when they are left free to move. Find:
a) the velocities ##v_1## and ##v_2## of the two bodies when they are vertically aligned;
b) the amplitude ##A## of the motion of ##m_1##.
Relevant Equations
##U_g=mgh, E_i=E_f, E=U+K, P_i=P_f##
1) By conservation of mechanical energy we have ##m_2gl(1-\cos(\alpha))+m_1gl=\frac{1}{2}m_1v_1^2+\frac{1}{2}m_2v_2^2+m_1gl## and by conservation of linear momentum along the x-axis we have ##m_1v_1+m_2v_2=0## which gives us ##v_2=\sqrt{\frac{2m_1gl(1-\cos(\theta))}{m_1+m_2}}## and ##v_1=-\frac{m_2}{m_1}v_2##

2) For ##m_2## I think that the amplitude should be ##A_2=2l\sin(\alpha)## but I don't see how find out the amplitude of ##m_1## so I would appreciate an hint about how to find it, thanks.
 

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lorenz0 said:
2) For ##m_2## I think that the amplitude should be ##A_2=2l\sin(\alpha)##
Wouldn't that be the amplitude relative to ##m_1##?
Where is the mass centre when the rope is vertical?
 
haruspex said:
Wouldn't that be the amplitude relative to ##m_1##?
yes, and my problem is that I don't see how I can go from that to the "general" amplitude of ##m_1##
 
haruspex said:
Wouldn't that be the amplitude relative to ##m_1##?
Where is the mass centre when the rope is vertical?
vertically along the rope, at position ##\frac{m_1}{m_1+m_2}\cdot l## wrt mass ##m_2## or at position ##\frac{m_2}{m_1+m_2}\cdot l## with respect to ##m_1##. Perhaps since there are no horizontal external forces the x-position of the CM is constant
 
Last edited:
haruspex said:
Wouldn't that be the amplitude relative to ##m_1##?
Where is the mass centre when the rope is vertical?
By imposing that the x-position of the center of mass (calculated wrt a frame centered on ##m_1##) is constant I get that the amplitude of the motion of ##m_1## is ##\frac{m_2}{m_1+m_2}l\sin(\alpha)=A## but according to the text I am using it should be twice as much. Any thoughts?
 
lorenz0 said:
By imposing that the x-position of the center of mass (calculated wrt a frame centered on ##m_1##) is constant I get that the amplitude of the motion of ##m_1## is ##\frac{m_2}{m_1+m_2}l\sin(\alpha)=A## but according to the text I am using it should be twice as much. Any thoughts?
This looks correct to me. Perhaps the text is using "amplitude" to mean the total distance between the left and right turning points of ##m_1##. Your interpretation is the same as what I would have assumed.
 

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