Angular momentum conserved for central forces not at origin?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of angular momentum in the context of central forces, particularly when the force is not located at the origin or when considering points other than the origin for angular momentum calculations. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to angular momentum in various reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the conservation of angular momentum when considering a central force not located at the origin or when calculating angular momentum about a point other than the origin.
  • Another participant asks what implications would arise if angular momentum were not conserved in these scenarios and suggests performing calculations to explore the outcomes.
  • A different participant proposes a mathematical relation for angular momentum with respect to a new point of rotational symmetry, indicating that the definition of angular momentum must be adjusted based on the chosen reference point.
  • One participant asserts that if a central force is not at the origin, it would exert a torque relative to the origin, which must be accounted for in the analysis of angular momentum conservation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of angular momentum conservation in non-origin scenarios, with no consensus reached on whether angular momentum remains conserved in these cases.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of the central force and the specific conditions under which angular momentum is being analyzed, including the definitions of reference points and the implications of torque.

OmegaKV
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My textbook says that for a central force at the origin, the angular momentum is constant, because the derivative rxF is zero since F points radially outwards so it is in the same direction as r. Ok, but what about the angular momentum about a point other than the origin, or the angular momentum with respect to the origin of a central force that is not located at the origin? Would angular momentum still conserved in these cases?
 
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What would it mean if angular momentum were not conserved in those cases?

Can you do the maths to see what would happen?
 
Of course then you have to relate the angular momentum to the new point of rotational symmetry. So you have to define
$$\vec{J}=(\vec{r}-\vec{r}_0) \times \vec{p},$$
if ##\vec{r}_0## is the position vector of the point around which the situation is rotatinal symmetric (isotropic). It's very obvious in view of Noether's theorem.
 
OmegaKV said:
Angular momentum with respect to the origin of a central force that is not located at the origin?
Momentum is conserved in a closed or isolated system. If there is a central force not located at the origin, then from the frame of the origin, that force must be exerting a torque on something with respect to the origin, and would need to be taken into account.
 

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