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Anti vaccine magazine (or how stupid people can get)

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  1. Oct 4, 2013 #1

    Borek

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    Typically I don't post the same in more than one place, I will do it this time:

    http://www.pharmafile.com/news/181169/calls-end-uk-anti-vaccine-magazine

    Each time I hear about such things I think of the post mortem photography industry that existed at the end of 19th century:

    http://io9.com/the-strangest-tradition-of-the-victorian-era-post-mort-472772709

    Most of the kids pictured on these photographs died because of one of the childhood diseases, now eradicated by the vaccination.

    Hey, you, is that really what you want?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 4, 2013 #2
    How many people bought that book "Natural cures they don't want you to know about" or something like that? Millions. It's all about making money. The people who write that magazine know it's BS, they just know there are desperate, ignorant people out there who will buy it. I think the problem isn't with the people who write the magazines, the problem is with the country not educating its citizens well enough. If you hear "vitamin C cures HIV" and you buy into it, without even thinking that all people with HIV consume vitamin C every day, then you're ignorant.
     
  4. Oct 4, 2013 #3
    I agree with this, and the medical community isn't helping itself either. Look at all the hospitals integrating CAM programs into their teaching and practice. A few months ago, I went to an appointment and the waiting room tv was showing Dr. Oz (this wasn't some rinky-dink hospital either).

    No wonder people don't know what's real and what's quackery!
     
  5. Oct 4, 2013 #4

    mfb

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    I agree, but those magazines are not really helping to educate ignorant persons.
     
  6. Oct 4, 2013 #5

    Evo

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    I don't see how medical misinformation is allowable. Is there no way to govern health and medical advice?
     
  7. Oct 4, 2013 #6

    jhae2.718

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    Think of it this way: it's a form of natural selection where the ignorant self-select themselves for extinction.
     
  8. Oct 4, 2013 #7

    Borek

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    Like every crackpot they will accuse you of conspiracy, censorship and so on.
     
  9. Oct 5, 2013 #8

    Ryan_m_b

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    Unfortunately not though I wish there were.
     
  10. Oct 5, 2013 #9

    Ryan_m_b

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    I hope you're making a bad joke because otherwise this is just sick. The idea that being ignorant if something makes you worthy of injury or death is contemptible. We're all ignorant of the vast majority of accumulated knowledge and if someone is in a position where crackpottery seems like a better answer to their problems then it is the scientific community that has failed. I'm of the opinion that far too many scientists sit back and assume that simply publishing their work is enough. It's not, especially if you work in medicine. You need to engage with the public and with politics to ensure good communication and education.

    Lastly vaccines are mostly given to children under consent of their parents so the only people dying would be those who never had the choice anyway. That and people who can't have vaccines and rely on herd immunity.
     
  11. Oct 5, 2013 #10

    Pythagorean

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    There's absolutely nothing wrong with ignorance. There's something wrong with denial, dishonesty, wilful ignorance, but not ignorance. It's very self-righteous to look down upon ignorance.
     
  12. Oct 5, 2013 #11

    Evo

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    I disagree, in the case of vaccines and the doctors, schools and health departments all explaining why vaccines are needed, the parents choose to be ignorant, it's not that the parents do not know the truth, they choose to ignore it.
     
  13. Oct 5, 2013 #12

    Pythagorean

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    So then you agree. You probably did not read my post carefully.
     
  14. Oct 5, 2013 #13

    Evo

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    Yes, I saw where you said "wilfull ignorance", and I'm saying in the case of vaccines, there is no "innocent ignorance", so they all deserve the criticism. I disagree with you that any parent is just "ignorant" of the facts. I don't know why you are nitpicking over someone calling them ignorant.
     
  15. Oct 5, 2013 #14

    Pythagorean

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    It really depends on the case. You can't know everyone's situation. My wife spends a lot of time refuting anti-vaccers (she's a lactation consultant so it comes up with clients) and she's required to follow a particular set of ethics that avoids shaming and self-righteousness (they're required to watch videos on it before joining the parent/child resources clinic).

    There are actually some people that will listen to good evidence and have been mislead by pseudoscience that looks like science and just didn't have the ability to tell the difference. They're uncommon, but certainly your deterministic statement, "there is no innocent ignorance", is wrong.
     
  16. Oct 5, 2013 #15

    Evo

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    We'll agree to disagree then since these people are given the information and they ignore it in favor of nonsense.
     
  17. Oct 5, 2013 #16
    Sometimes people are ignorant of the truth because their only source of any information about the subject is the objections against it. Another example of that is evolution. Some people may only hear about evolution in church, which is where they'd most likely only hear lies told about it. So their only information about the subject is lies.
     
  18. Oct 5, 2013 #17

    Evo

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    Unless the parents have never been to a doctor and their children are home schooled, and the parents have been shielded from birth from information from the real world would this apply, this is not the case for the majority of these people. The great majority of these people are choosing to believe misinformation that is spread by either stupid or unscrupulous people.
     
  19. Oct 5, 2013 #18

    Ryan_m_b

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    There's also the community aspect which brings huge pressure on people not to believe outside sources. You don't just see this in extreme religious sects or crackpot groups, you find it in many aspects of modern society, so called mens rights activists spring to mind.

    None of us here are immune either. You have to be constantly rigorous with yourself to identify bias and it isn't easy. Most people are fine at finding their bias in one area but not in others. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be wrong to characterise all these people as will-fully ignorant, that doesn't excuse them by a long way (it's not an excuse at all) but I think that writing people off as "well the information is there, they just don't read it" is damaging.
     
  20. Oct 5, 2013 #19

    Evo

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    But they *do* read it, the problem is that they choose misinformation. This is a growing problem in the US. They see these quacks on popular celebrity tv talk shows and listen to celebrity dimwits giving out misinformation and they believe it. Oprah is the single largest source of medical misinformation in this country. And recently a celebrity crackpot against vaccines was just added to a popular talk show that Barbara Walters hosts. Even if Walters believes in vaccines, being placed on this show gives the crackpot instant validation.

    How do you combat that?
     
  21. Oct 5, 2013 #20

    mfb

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    There is no need to believe, there is evidence.

    It can be hard to be right, but it is relatively easy to not be wrong - don't believe anything you see somewhere.
    If it is important to be right (like the health of you and your children), make sure you are right. I think at that point, willful ignorance is the only way to reject vaccines. Otherwise, you cannot possibly miss the possibility that vaccines might be useful, and further research will show that they are.
     
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