Applied physics of current probe / generator clamps

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Maxwell's equations in the context of current probe and generator clamps used in a power cable setup. Participants explore the electromagnetic interactions involved when a high-frequency voltage is applied, leading to induced currents and magnetic fields, and seek to relate these phenomena to Maxwell's laws.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a current-clamp-loop-generator and a current-loop-clamp-probe, detailing the process of inducing an alternating current and magnetic field through a power cable.
  • The same participant outlines a sequence of events related to the application of a high-frequency transient voltage and the resulting induced current, seeking to connect these to specific laws of Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant suggests conceptualizing the setup as a transformer, proposing that the power conductor acts as a single turn in a transformer model, which could simplify the analysis using traditional transformer equations.
  • A request for clarification arises regarding the transformer analogy, indicating that not all participants fully grasp the explanation provided.
  • A follow-up response attempts to clarify the transformer concept by referencing a Wikipedia page on current transformers, explaining the roles of primary and secondary turns in the context of the described setup.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to conceptualize the electromagnetic interactions in the setup, with some favoring a direct application of Maxwell's equations and others suggesting a transformer model. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to analyze the situation.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the application of Maxwell's equations to the described scenario, and there are varying interpretations of the transformer analogy. The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of electromagnetic fields and the specific configurations of the clamps.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in electrical engineering, applied physics, and those studying electromagnetic theory, particularly in relation to current measurement techniques and transformer principles.

JaneHall89
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Im studying Maxwell's equations in a part time degree and I starting thinking in job about a particular task we perform...

The situation

In work we have a power cable and attach two items to it. One current-clamp-loop-generator (ferrite core wound N turns with wire) and one current-loop-clamp-probe are placed anywhere on the wire but so they are spaced 50cm apart. Picture the power cable running through two circular loops (clamps)

The current generator clamp is connected to a transient voltage generator and we trigger a high frequency voltage to it, the current clamp probe is attached to a Oscilloscope to measure the induced current on the power cable that is situated 50cm away from the current generator clamp.

So my thinking is the following...

1. The high frequency transient voltage from the transient voltage generator induces an alternating current along the wires which are wrapped around the ferrite core of the current-generator-clamp. The Alternating current then produces an alternating magnetic field.

2. By using the right hand rule and curling my fingers around the loop of the clamp the alternating magnetic field points along the central axis of the loop parallel or anti parallel to the power cable.

3. The alternating magnetic field changes the flux running parallel or anti parallel to the wire (inside it) and thus produces a voltage that will drive an induced current.

4. That induced current flows down the power cable from the position of the current clamp generator to the current clamp probe. The alternating current produces an alternating magnetic field with a flux that changes inside the current clamp probe, this induces voltages and drives a current that is measured on the oscilloscope.

Help
Can someone please assist with my explanation and in the quote place a 1,2,3 or 4 to represent one of the laws of maxwell equations that applies at that situation. I've been struggling all day to get the equations to fit my explanation...
 
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JaneHall89 said:
Im studying Maxwell's equations in a part time degree and I starting thinking in job about a particular task we perform...

The situation

In work we have a power cable and attach two items to it. One current-clamp-loop-generator (ferrite core wound N turns with wire) and one current-loop-clamp-probe are placed anywhere on the wire but so they are spaced 50cm apart. Picture the power cable running through two circular loops (clamps)

The current generator clamp is connected to a transient voltage generator and we trigger a high frequency voltage to it, the current clamp probe is attached to a Oscilloscope to measure the induced current on the power cable that is situated 50cm away from the current generator clamp.

So my thinking is the following...

1. The high frequency transient voltage from the transient voltage generator induces an alternating current along the wires which are wrapped around the ferrite core of the current-generator-clamp. The Alternating current then produces an alternating magnetic field.

2. By using the right hand rule and curling my fingers around the loop of the clamp the alternating magnetic field points along the central axis of the loop parallel or anti parallel to the power cable.

3. The alternating magnetic field changes the flux running parallel or anti parallel to the wire (inside it) and thus produces a voltage that will drive an induced current.

4. That induced current flows down the power cable from the position of the current clamp generator to the current clamp probe. The alternating current produces an alternating magnetic field with a flux that changes inside the current clamp probe, this induces voltages and drives a current that is measured on the oscilloscope.

Help
Can someone please assist with my explanation and in the quote place a 1,2,3 or 4 to represent one of the laws of maxwell equations that applies at that situation. I've been struggling all day to get the equations to fit my explanation...
It's probably just better to think of them as transformers. When you run the power conductor through the core once, that forms a 1-turn primary or secondary on the core (including the return path for the conductor). Then you can just use your traditional transformer equations for an N:1 transformer to figure out how it works. :smile:
 
berkeman said:
It's probably just better to think of them as transformers. When you run the power conductor through the core once, that forms a 1-turn primary or secondary on the core (including the return path for the conductor). Then you can just use your traditional transformer equations for an N:1 transformer to figure out how it works. :smile:
I am not clear what you mean here. Would you be able to explain this differently please?
 
JaneHall89 said:
I am not clear what you mean here. Would you be able to explain this differently please?
Sure. Have a look at this wikipedia page that explains how current transformers work (N:1 transformers):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_transformer

The primary in this case is the single turn of the conductor through the CT core, with the N-turn Secondary connected to a measuring circuit.

The drive circuit you describe would work in a similar way, but with the waveform generator connected to the N-turn Primary side of a CT to drive the waveform into the single turn Secondary.
 

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