Admissions Applying for PhD with Low UG GPA and Gap Years

[rphysx]

Hey everyone, I'm currently in my master's program in India and have been thinking about applying to states for a phd. So my problem is that I really messed up in my undergrad (2.74/4.00) but I'm doing much better in my MSc (3.2 in 1st sem, will try to reach 3.5 in total). Also, apart from that I had 2 gap years. What do you guys think are my chances of getting into a decent phd program?

 

[Vanadium 50]

I think you need to make other plans.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I think you need to make other plans.

Probably. If the OP took the PGRE and did very, very well, there may be a crack in a few doors once the schools start requiring them again.

My sense is that real physics learning is falling a bit behind in the COVID era and that grade inflation is accelerating in many departments. When the PGRE is turned on again, there will be lots of poor scores, and the better scores are going to stand out.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I wouldn't plan on it, even with a great GRE.

(1) He missed this application cycle. That's three gap years. My first reaction would be "is this guy serious?"

(2) 2.74 is way too low. 3.2 is low, and it's his best term yet! (I'll believe his 3.8 in the upcoming term when I see it.) And even if he gets a 3.8 in the next term, the overall is below 2.9. Maybe I could get the Dean's OK for this, but do I want to use up a chip to try this?

(3) Suppose he get a 98%+ on the GRE. (Another thing I will believe when I see) What should I conclude from that? I would conclude "Smart kid. Has trouble passing his classes." Then I would wonder what the chances are that he makes it through his coursework and the qual here. What do you think his chances are? 20%? 40%?

(4) Letters? Says nothing about letters. What do you think the letters from a 2.74 student - or even a 3.2 student - will look like?

(5) India. There are an infinite number of students from India. I can surely find one who is less risky.

Finally, he wants a "decent PhD program". I don't know what "decent" means (but he says "India", so I suspect it's Ranking, Ranking, Ranking!) , but if you say "above average", 12-15 schools confer half of the physics PhDs. Do you think he'll get into the Top 15? Top 25? Top 35?

No, I think he should be making other plans. Sure, he might ace the GRE, and he might get lucky in the overall process, but I wouldn't make any plans around that.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

We seem to disagree more on the wording that the substance of our views. I have no idea about the COVID grade inflation in India, but from what I can discern, it's pretty strong right now in the US. I am predicting grade inflation will cause PGRE scores to be weighted more heavily in the near future than they have in the near past.

I may also have a different view of what "decent PhD program" really means. To me, LSU, UGA, Auburn, and Clemson are "decent" programs. By the time you get to Ole Miss and Kent State? Maybe not so decent.

 

[rphysx]

Hey @Vanadium 50,
(1) I haven't missed this admission cycle, I'm still in my first semester of MSc. The first gap year I took was after my HS (at that time honestly I was confused about what I wanted) and the second one was due to financial reasons (I was working part-time as my family was going through a rough time and studying for entrances)

(2) I know 2.74 is way too low but it was like the mean score of my class. I am in a much better college now and really trying to even the odds (Plus grading system is a bit less harsh in this college). I am pretty confident that i can get an overall 3.6+ in the masters degree.

(3) I'll try my best to get a good score on both GRE and PGRE. The PGRE exam is somewhat easier than the entrances here in India and the syllabus is exactly the same as the masters entrance I took last year.

(4) I think I can get good(if not amazing) recommendation letters from my profs and from my internships.

(5) Lastly, I don't think I can do much about this. There are like insane amount of Indians applying for phd programs in the states and surely many applicants will have a better profile than me.

About the decent PhD programs lol, I don't think I'm going to even aim in the top 20s. I think the highest i would try would be Texas A&M.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Personally, pretty much any PhD awarding department (and I mean ones that regularly award them, not ones with an empty program) is decent. Ole Miss and Wayne State both have some excellent faculty and have produced some very good students. Certainly their upper end overlaps with the lower end of Harvard and MIT.

So what does the OP mean? We can only guess. You've seen my guess.