Are BEC vortex lattices individual atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of vortex lattices in Bose-Einstein condensates (BEC) and whether these structures can be considered as individual atoms. Participants explore the implications of BEC states on the detectability of atoms and the interpretation of various sources regarding these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the nature of vortex lattices in BEC, asking if they represent individual particles or atoms, noting uncertainty about the visibility of atoms in BEC states.
  • Another participant challenges the use of vague references, asserting that vortex lattices are not individual atoms and referencing a paper that states they are magnetic fluxes.
  • A participant acknowledges a lack of initial reading of the linked paper and poses a follow-up question about the possibility of detecting individual atoms in BEC states.
  • One participant cites an article discussing the indistinguishability of atoms in BEC states due to their energy levels, suggesting this might imply they cannot be detected as individual atoms.
  • Another participant provides links to images that purportedly show individual atoms in BEC states, questioning if these images support the idea that discrete individual atoms can be detected in such states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether vortex lattices in BEC correspond to individual atoms, with some asserting they do not and others suggesting that individual atoms can be detected under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the cited sources and images.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of "particle" and "atom," as well as the interpretations of the sources referenced. The participants have not reached a consensus on the detectability of individual atoms in BEC states.

Rev. Cheeseman
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Can anyone tell me what are those vortex lattices in Bose-Einstein condensates (BEC)? Images of these vortex lattices in BEC can be seen here http://www.iap.tu-darmstadt.de/fileadmin/apq/apq_teaching/apq_teaching_ws1213/GESPERRT_moderne_optik/Ketterle_Vortex_Lattices_Science.pdf. Are those individual particles or what? Some people told me that atoms cannot be observed when they are in BEC state but I'm not sure.
 
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wonderingchicken said:
Some people told me
Stop it, please.

You know "some people told me" is not an acceptable reference here.

wonderingchicken said:
Are those individual particles or what?
Or what? What do you means by "particle"? Like "a particle or dust"? They certainly are not individual atoms, since the paper comes right ouit and says they aren't.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Stop it, please.

You know "some people told me" is not an acceptable reference here.Or what? What do you means by "particle"? Like "a particle or dust"? They certainly are not individual atoms, since the paper comes right ouit and says they aren't.
I just read the link, and it said the vortex lattices are magnetic fluxes. Sorry for asking without reading the link first. But another question, is it possible to detect individual atoms while they are all in BEC state?
 
According to this article https://www.livescience.com/54667-bose-einstein-condensate.html, it said "What the two found was that ordinarily, atoms have to have certain energies — in fact one of the fundamentals of quantum mechanics is that the energy of an atom or other subatomic particle can't be arbitrary. This is why electrons, for example, have discrete "orbitals" that they have to occupy, and why they give off photons of specific wavelengths when they drop from one orbital, or energy level, to another. But cool the atoms to within billionths of a degree of absolute zero and some atoms begin to fall into the same energy level, becoming indistinguishable."

I think by indistinguishable, they mean the atoms in Bose-Einstein condensates (BEC) states can't be detected as individual atoms. Not sure but please tell me if they mean otherwise.

But in these images https://calderup.wordpress.com/2010/08/18/superatomic-circus/#more-1556 and https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Images-of-single-atoms-in-a-Rb-Bose-Einstein-condensate-trapped-in-an-optical-lattice_fig18_322735643 we can actually see individual atoms in BEC states. Are there any other images that show individual atoms in BEC states? If these images indeed show individual atoms in BEC states, that means it is actually possible to detect discrete individual atoms in BEC states.
 

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