News Are Illegal Aliens Responsible for Environmental Issues in Arizona?

[hitssquad]

http://members.cox.net/hijinx/B58.htm

I start by saying that if there were ever possibly some way to fly all illegal aliens “over” Arizona and parachute them into your neighborhoods and have those illegal aliens walk through, camp in, trash up, leave human feces and used Kotex in your back yards, then you could possibly find an easy way to “walk a mile in my moccasins.” But since the illegal aliens cannot be parachuted into your neighborhoods, jump over or bypass Arizona by any other means and because you continue to call for these illegal aliens to come to you, it is therefore important for me to share something with you. It is important to me that you see what has happened to my neighborhood while these illegal Aliens are passing through on their way to maintain your yards, lawns, swimming pools and do everything else you so desperately want them to do for slave labor wages.

 

[Evo]

Sorry, but a thread aimed at discrediting a portion of the populace just isn't conducive to a positive discussion.

So aliens buy a lot of bottled water and gatorade based on these pictures?

You'd think that coming here from another part of the universe they could make their own.

 

[Pengwuino]

All i got to say is what i really hate is if anyone ever dares say anything about border security or border patrol, its as if a satellite immediately pinpoints your coordinates and every single person with a dissimilar view fires off statements such as 'your a bigot' or 'you racist POS' or 'stop exploiting people'. I bet a far higher percentage of anti-border security people consider this a race issue then the pro-border security people do.

I mean come on, who are these politicians catering too? People from other countries don't vote for them... ok well, i figure i know who there catering too. I mean how can people think its bad to stop an illegal act? Should we stop charging peopel for murder or decriminalize rape? I mean people can still get citizenship or residency here easily, ask my friend who got US citizenship at like 10 years old completely legally. I think most Americans can agree on the idea that if a 10 year old can do it, we should let people try it.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Sorry, but a thread aimed at discrediting a portion of the populace just isn't conducive to a positive discussion.

While the tone of the article does seem a bit harsh I think it really gives you a better idea of the situation and how it effects people than the PC version of the story you would generally see. I listen to a talk radio station that is following the Minute Men project and the reporter there has interviewed several of the residents in that area as well as border patrol agents that are quite greatful for what they are doing. Ofcourse in those interviews the things that seemed to worry the residents most were the "coyotes" and drug runners who are most often armed. I guess, even as unnerving as it would be to me, you just sort of get used to random illegal immigrants wandering through your property at night.

 

[Pengwuino]

I would absolutely lose it. I am ready to start firing away at any shadow i see moving outside my window on the backyard lawn and i live in a 400,000 population city lol. I would go nuts and move away especially with the thought in my head that 'they MAY be armed'.

 

[SOS2008]

Pursuant to successful passage of Arizona's Prop 200 in 2004 [PLAIN]http://yesonprop200.com/info/proposition_200.html[/url], the issue of illegal immigration is very important here in Arizona and other border states as well. Another good, though long article for recommended reading is posted on the official website for Arizona's Jon Kyle (R) United States Senate http://www.kfi640.com/time_dooropen.html

In the meantime, CNN has been doing a series on the topic, and here are some excerpts from last night's news: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0504/14/ldt.01.html

Border Insecurity; Criminal Illegal Aliens; Deadly Imports; Illegal Alien Amnesty
Aired April 14, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, border insecurity. President Bush defends his plans to legalize millions of illegal aliens. My guest tonight, a senator who plans to legalize a million illegal farm workers.

And deadly imports. The invasion of illegal aliens is threatening the health of many Americans. Highly-contagious diseases are now crossing our borders decades after those diseases had been eradicated in this country.

DR. MADELINE COSMAN, MEDICAL LAWYER: We have some enormous problems with horrendous diseases that are being brought into America by illegal aliens. Some of these diseases we had already vanquished, such as tuberculosis. And other diseases we have only rarely had here in America, such as Chagas Disease, leprosy, malaria.

ROMANS: Indeed, many of the diseases public health officials screened out at Ellis Island are again finding their way back into hospital emergency rooms.

ROMANS: Lou, anyone coming to this country legally or seeking asylum must undergo medical testing to detect and treat these sorts of diseases. But if we don't know who is coming over, we don't know the magnitude of the diseases they have, how they are being spread and where to.

DOBBS: …But to stop future cases it seems clear that one would have to secure our borders. Secondly, these other diseases, tuberculosis, leprosy, malaria?

ROMANS: It's interesting, because the woman in our piece told us that there were about 900 cases of leprosy for 40 years. There have been 7,000 in the past three years. Leprosy in this country.

Assuming that Bush's assertions are true that illegal immigration is needed for our economy to function, there are so many other effects such as disease that must be taken into consideration.

I will add information on poll results later.

 

[dextercioby]

So why did you unlock it,Evo?Or was it someone else...?

Daniel.

P.S.It's still crap.

P.P.S.I see,you opened only on the condition it got hi-jacked.

 

[Pengwuino]

Assuming that Bush's assertions are true that illegal immigration is needed for our economy to function, there are so many other effects such as disease that must be taken into consideration.

Thats very questionable in my eyes. As someone who lives in California in a cit with a large concentration of illegal immigrants, with 2 parents with 30+ years experience working for the welfare department, i think i know a little about what goes on. There are plenty of legal residents, some even citizens, from other countries who take welfare checks that are capable and willing to work at these jobs illegal immigrants take (but at the time, don't see job openings). If you take out a thousand illegal immigrants, a thousand legal residents will fill their place.

What might be better though if for some reason people decide not to work... they should put some of the 2 million US prison population into the fields to work! Wouldn't mind seeing some punk kid arrested for armed robbery or home invasion out there picking grapes :D. What would really float my boat would be someone arrested for some nerdy computer crime get thrown out into the fields :P.

 

[SOS2008]

Thats very questionable in my eyes. As someone who lives in California in a cit with a large concentration of illegal immigrants, with 2 parents with 30+ years experience working for the welfare department, i think i know a little about what goes on. There are plenty of legal residents, some even citizens, from other countries who take welfare checks that are capable and willing to work at these jobs illegal immigrants take (but at the time, don't see job openings). If you take out a thousand illegal immigrants, a thousand legal residents will fill their place.

What might be better though if for some reason people decide not to work... they should put some of the 2 million US prison population into the fields to work! Wouldn't mind seeing some punk kid arrested for armed robbery or home invasion out there picking grapes :D. What would really float my boat would be someone arrested for some nerdy computer crime get thrown out into the fields :P.

I used the word "assuming" because I do not agree with Bush's proposal for "guest worker" amnesty. Those who are old enough to remember making extra money bailing hay in the summer or cutting grass for the neighbor, or in my case busing tables when I was in high school, it is hard to believe these needs cannot be met without allowing illegal aliens to flood across the borders. Or maybe the younger generations are too good to be pulled away from their Xboxes and their parents who subsidize them for who knows how long? Real quick, here are findings from a recent CNN poll (as of today's date):

Do you think U.S. representatives and senators understand the economic, social and national security impact of illegal immigration and failed border security?

Yes - 10% (694 votes)
No - 90% (6,406 votes)

 

[Evo]

So why did you unlock it,Evo?Or was it someone else...?

Daniel.

P.S.It's still crap.

I agreed to unlock it as long as it is about issues surrounding immigration and not accusing a group of leaving trash.

I grew up in Texas, quite a population of illegal aliens there and they are people that have made the difficult choice to come into the US and be worked and treated worse than dogs so they can make a living for their families. They don't come here to goof off.

I was in Dallas recently and we drove down one of the streets where groups of aliens gather on street corners waiting for people to come by and pick them up for a day's work. These aren't lazy, dirty people. These are poor, unfortunate people willing to work to live.

I'm not condoning entering and working illegally in the US and it's certainly a problem, but I can empathize with their situation.

 

[dextercioby]

Ooops, i had no idea it was about dirt caused by illegal immigrants,i thought "aliens" really meant ALIENS (as in E.T. )...OMG ! :



Daniel.


EDIT:"Arizona,trashed by aliens".Add neighboring New Mexico and Roswell and there you go:ALIENS.

 

[Evo]

Ooops, i had no idea it was about dirt caused by illegal immigrants,i thought "aliens" really meant ALIENS (as in E.T. )...OMG ! :



Daniel.


EDIT:"Arizona,trashed by aliens".Add neighboring New Mexico and Roswell and there you go:ALIENS.

It could be ET's all the pictures show are empty bottles.

 

[dextercioby]

Hey,i didn't know aliens are not allowed to drink. That's so unfair...

Daniel.

 

[Math Is Hard]

It could be ET's all the pictures show are empty bottles.

hmm.. no, I don't think so. All the crop circles I've seen were very neat and tidy.

 

[Orion1]

Yeah, those 'Aliens' leave their trash scattered all over the place! The saucercraft debree alone is scattered across half of Roswell!
[/color]

 

[Pengwuino]

Is that some sort of allusion to the civil war lol.

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm not condoning entering and working illegally in the US and it's certainly a problem, but I can empathize with their situation.

Anyone can understand their situation. The problem is the Mexican government. Their politicians (and this is from people with first hand accounts, not some interest group selling me their ideology) tell their people to go into the US illegally and bring back US dollars. How bout they take all their horribly distributed wealth and put it into the actual country to allow their citizens to legally come to the US if they want.

 

[hitssquad]

all the pictures show are empty bottles.

If that were the case then why would the http://members.cox.net/hijinx/B58.htm,

WARNING: You may find viewing the used Kotex to be repulsive!

and

WARNING: You may find viewing the feces to be repulsive!

 

[Moonbear]

Assuming that Bush's assertions are true that illegal immigration is needed for our economy to function, there are so many other effects such as disease that must be taken into consideration.

I'm not a fan of the amnesty program idea, as I think people should not be rewarded for something illegal. However, I wonder if it might actually help curb some of these problems with disease, because more of the illegals might seek medical help if they aren't afraid of deportation. Nonetheless, it's going to be a huge burden on the healthcare system along the borders if they need to treat these illegal immigrants on the US taxpayer tab instead of shipping them back to Mexico for treatment there. There is already a burden because those hospitals can't refuse to treat patients. It's not going to stop them from coming in with diseases, but at least we might be able to stop them and get them to treatment sooner before they spread the disease to the population-at-large.

 

[Huckleberry]

Just imagine what their lives must have been like if they decided that it was better to move to the US and risk everything and be homeless in a foreign country where they probably don't even speak the native language. I wouldn't like the bottles and feces in my backyard, but people have to eat and drink. Can anyone resent them for trying to improve their lives?

 

[Evo]

If that were the case then why would the http://members.cox.net/hijinx/B58.htm

I don't see any illegal aliens in the pictures, do you?

Did you ever see pictures of that farmer's field after Woodstock?

Why do you think roadcrews have to be sent out constantly to pick up rubbish along the highways?

People create garbage.

 

[Evo]

Just imagine what their lives must have been like if they decided that it was better to move to the US and risk everything and be homeless in a foreign country where they probably don't even speak the native language. I wouldn't like the bottles and feces in my backyard, but people have to eat and drink. Can anyone resent them for trying to improve their lives?

Exactly. I don't know much about US/Mexican politics, but the problem is "why" these people are fleeing to the US. Until the "why" is resolved, people will continue to try to find a means to survive or follow an ill conceived dream of bettering it.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't know much about the politics either, but I did spend 3 months living there, mostly in Mexico City. Penguinos statement about the distribution of wealth did seem true to me. A few people asked me to get products from the US to send to them, mostly popular brands of sports gear. One of the people I was working with had at one point worked in the US and was attempting to learn English and return. I suspect that he might have been an illegal alien (my Spanish is very limited and I thought it might be rude to ask). On the streets around where I was staying tent like shops would open up during the daytime and stray dogs were everywhere and Mexican music was always playing somewhere. The people were so friendly to me. I have never been as accepted as a stranger in this country as I was there. And they asked for very little.
LOL I did run into one thief and even he was very consciencious. In Puerta Vallarta I was looking for a dock to take a boat to an isolated beach where a friend of mine was staying for Christmas and New Year's. I missed the boat and someone told me there was another and offered to take me there. He helped me carry my bags. Later I bought him some lunch. I thought he was sick at first and asked what was wrong and he said that he was going to rob me but changed his mind. (There was a problem with drugs and child prostitution in Puerta Vallarta at that time)
I believe that it is very important not to prejudge the people of an entire nation. I've traveled a fair deal and I have found that people anywhere will give you a chance if they are treated respectfully. I think many tourists from the US give the rest of the US a bad reputation internationally. (as well as the politics of this nation).
My uncle lives just a few miles from the border in a small town called Arivaca. Aliens cross the border there regularly and a few have even stopped at his house to ask for help or water. I've seen them walking on the side of the road in rags. These are destitute people. How could I possibly be upset with them?

 

[hitssquad]

Mexico's distribution of wealth and Gini score

Penguinos statement about the distribution of wealth did seem true to me.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html#Econ


--
Economy . . . . Mexico

[...] income distribution remains highly unequal.

[...]

Household income or consumption by percentage share:
lowest 10%: 1.6%
highest 10%: 35.6% (2002)

[...]

Distribution of family income - Gini index:
53.1 (1998)
--


Regarding the Gini index:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2172

--
The more nearly equal a country's income distribution, the closer its Lorenz curve to the 45 degree line and the lower its Gini index, e.g., a Scandinavian country with an index of 25. The more unequal a country's income distribution, the farther its Lorenz curve from the 45 degree line and the higher its Gini index, e.g., a Sub-Saharan country with an index of 50.
--

 

[SOS2008]

Once again I recommend the reading of this article that was in Time Magazine entitled: "Who Left the Door Open?" @ http://www.kfi640.com/time_dooropen.html In addition, you may go to http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ldt.html to read transcripts of the series called "Broken Borders" that has aired on CNN's Lou Dobbs tonight.

You will see the enormous numbers involved and how wide-ranging the effects have become. Not just hospitals, but schools, drugs, gang violence, homeland security, human rights abuses, the cost of having everything in two languages, etc. -- the list goes on and on. Border states (and actually other states too) are in so much financial distress, some are closing county hospitals, schools are struggling to keep up, etc. Unfortunately some American citizens are taking matters into their own hands and forming groups to help patrol the border. I know someone who is in the process of moving out of Arizona in part because of these problems.

In the meantime, the people/business who use illegal labor are breaking the law too. Why do you suppose they are doing this? Do you think they have no alternative but to do this? Do you think they care about the country or anyone other than themselves and their profits (savings)? Just as with corporations that outsource American jobs, they are the constituents your representatives don't want to confront, especially during a time of high deficits, etc. True, there are real economic issues to work through (e.g., inflation), but these issues will be far worse in the not too distant future if the problem isn't addressed now.

 

[Math Is Hard]

We're definitely feeling the effects in Southern California. Our emergency rooms are flooded with illegal aliens with no insurance and no way to pay the medical bills after they receive treatment. It's been a great hardship on the state.

 

[SOS2008]

From CNN transcripts last night, another example:

Well, as we reported here extensively, the millions of illegal aliens in this country are enjoying many benefits designed for U.S. citizens, including, of course, education. Tonight, Florida is the latest state to consider legislation that would allow many illegal aliens to attend state colleges for largely discounted in-state tuition rates. Critics say the bill will only harm students who are in fact American citizens.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Florida's students save as much as 75 percent off the cost of a community college education if they're eligible for in-state tuition rates. The Florida legislature is considering a bill that would give children of illegal migrant farm workers access to the lower rates when they attend state schools. Proponents held a rally last month lobbying for the legislation.

REP. JOHN QUINONES, FLORIDA LEGISLATURE: Students that want to advance themselves and want to create themselves opportunities to be better citizens should not be hampered.

SYLVESTER: But critics question the logic of rewarding families who broke the law in the first place. State Senator Mike Haridopolos is also a history professor at a Florida community college.

SEN. MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, FLORIDA LEGISLATURE: If a bill like this passes, it will cost people who are regular Florida residents, who've worked hard, played by the rules, and paid their taxes, they would literally get left behind. And as a teacher, I just don't want to send that message to our students here in the state of Florida, nor do I want to send that message across the United States.

SYLVESTER: Eight States currently allow illegal aliens to receive in-state tuition rates, even though U.S. citizens from outside the state do not qualify for the discounted tuition.

JOYCE TARNOW, FLORIDA FOR A SUSTAINABLE POPULATION: That's not fair to the people of the United States of America who have children, who are having a hard time paying the cost of tuition, and sometimes do not qualify for some of the financial aid programs.

When these folks get their college degrees, what jobs will they want? Somehow I suspect it won't be the jobs Americans won't do.

In my office, we have had clients tell us they are taking their business elsewhere because we don't have someone who is bilingual. So now we are trying to find someone bilingual to hire. This means that a very qualified, but only English-speaking American will not get this job. It is reverse discrimination, for a "white-collar" job.

In the meantime, I mentioned to one of these clients that these people would be able to advance better if they learned English. He said soon Gringos like me will be the minority, so we should be learning Spanish. If I go to certain places, within blocks of where I work and live, I am already a minority in my own country. I've lived in this state most of my life--this has become the case practically over night.

This isn't about racism--it could be any group of people from anywhere and I would have the same concerns. It just goes to show there are many ways to invade America. I don't worry about terrorism any more.

 

[Evo]

This isn't about racism--it could be any group of people from anywhere and I would have the same concerns.

It's a serious problem. Living in Houston, it angered me all of the time, but you can't blame the individuals for wanting a better life. I mean, isn't that why people came to this country to begin with? But look what we did to the native Indians already living here. Let's not forget that the people that "founded" this great country were once alien immigrants that invaded an existing culture.

Like I said, I'm not knowledgeable about what pressure the US is putting on the Mexican government to remedy the problem. Are we making the Mexiacn government feel enough pain that they will do more to stop the mass exodus from their country? It wouldn't seem so. Packing the aliens up and sending them back isn't going to solve the problem, they will just keep coming. Jailing them is too expensive an option.

If we don't allow them an education, we are keeping them financially dependent upon us. On the other hand, the education is an extra incentive for more to risk coming.

The bilingual thing burns me up. Schools should not be having to teach in Spanish. If people come here, they need to learn the language. When I was in college, I worked as a telephone operator at night. A lot of illegal aliens would call home to Mexico from the payphones down at the docks. They spoke no English. Some of the hispanic operators refused to speak spanish unless they got paid more for it, so because I could speak some spanish, I was often referred to handle the calls. It was interesting, some of the places were so remote that I would call the operator in the town in Mexico that was nearest to the family being called (usually she had a switchboard in her house). I would tell her who we wanted to speak to and they would arrange a day and time for the person placing the call to call back. Then they would send a messenger by donkey (I'm not kidding) to the remote village to get the person and bring them back to the operator's house at the specified date and time to wait for the call.

 

[SOS2008]

It's a serious problem. Living in Houston, it angered me all of the time, but you can't blame the individuals for wanting a better life. I mean, isn't that why people came to this country to begin with? But look what we did to the native Indians already living here. Let's not forget that the people that "founded" this great country were once alien immigrants that invaded an existing culture.

I know what you are saying, and I agree that we are all immigrants and America has strived hard to be a melting pot of harmony, which is why our country has been strong. However, let's not confuse legal entry with illegal entry. I have many friends who have come into the country on work visas and/or have worked hard to gain citizenship legally. This is the way it is for most countries, and it should remain this way for the U.S. In the meantime, my ancestors also settled this state. My great grandfather lost his ranch to Poncho Villa. The historical argument is not legitimate for anyone--it can go on and on.

Like I said, I'm not knowledgeable about what pressure the US is putting on the Mexican government to remedy the problem. Are we making the Mexiacn government feel enough pain that they will do more to stop the mass exodus from their country? It wouldn't seem so. Packing the aliens up and sending them back isn't going to solve the problem, they will just keep coming. Jailing them is too expensive an option.

In all fairness, it isn't just Mexicans who go to El Norte, but also other countries south of our borders. As for deportation, American tax dollars are used to send some of these folks home repeatedly (plane tickets), only to have them return again, so I agree this is not effective.

If we don't allow them an education, we are keeping them financially dependent upon us. On the other hand, the education is an extra incentive for more to risk coming.

What part of "illegal" are people not understanding? I can feel for the poor countries of the world, but I am not going to put my own country and standard of living at risk to try to solve the world's problems. The pressure on these countries to provide for their own is where the answer lies.

 

[cronxeh]

the problem with the illegal immigrants pouring from Mexico is not in that US isn't doing anything about it - its in the Mexicans themselves. Mexico is almost 3 times the size of Texas, but has 1/3 the population of the US - at 105 million people. Same problem in India - 1 billion population with only 1.5 times the land of Mexico.

I mean, seriously, why would you have kids if you don't even have enough land or other necessary conditions for their insured survival?

 

[Pengwuino]

Exactly. I don't know much about US/Mexican politics, but the problem is "why" these people are fleeing to the US. Until the "why" is resolved, people will continue to try to find a means to survive or follow an ill conceived dream of bettering it.

We got teh 'why' staring us right in the face down south. If Canada's governemnt was just as corrupt and the economy as screwed up as it is in Mexico, we'd have this problem up in Washington or ... whatever the other northern states are lol.

@Evo

The US government is not taking a serious approach at this. Bush seems to care more about the overall economic situation with them instead of the peoples views on it who actually live here. But then again it seems like half the people here want to make mexico apart of the US or visa versa and go off threatening people who speak English that "we're taking over soon white boy, you better learn spanish and learn to bow down to us" or some crap like that. I mean what self-respecting country allows this attitude? Its happened in the past but when did 2 wrong start making a right?

And this bilingual thing is going to probably cause big problems for me in my business. I have no chance in hell of succeeding if i have to keep spanish speakers around during normal business hours. I really do feel sorry for the people who only know Spanish and have to come to an English speaking country... but flip the situation around and I am sure Mexico isn't mandating everyone learn English for when someoen from the US walks by. I mean look at when your average American goes to france or italy or germany. They usually try to learn the language as best they can as quick as they can first and always have a dumb lil translator book with them. haha hey thatd be a good program... start handing out spanish-english translation books. If you can't stop the problem, at least help make business transactions a little easier for both parties.

 

[Huckleberry]

There is a strong correlation between population growth and poverty. Nations with a greater distribution of wealth will experience a growth in population mostly among the poor. This article gives a few reasons why poor people would want to have more children.
http://allfreeessays.com/student/Poverty_and_rapid_population_growth.html

What part of "illegal" are people not understanding? I can feel for the poor countries of the world, but I am not going to put my own country and standard of living at risk to try to solve the world's problems. The pressure on these countries to provide for their own is where the answer lies.

I think everyone understands that illegal immigration is illegal. Its a matter of economics. US citizens do not like the additional expense of illegal immigration. That seems fair. Mexican citizens want a better life and the US provides that opportunity. That seems fair too. The problem is in government policies of both the US and Mexico. Until this is resolved illegal immigrants will come to this country for better wages and education.

I suspect that US businesses are making a profit from NAFTA because they can employ workers from Central and Southern America at a much cheaper rate than US workers. Then they can ship the products here at little expense. They reap huge benefits and the US worker loses his job and suffers pay cuts elsewhere to keep business competitive. The opening of the borders to this kind of trade hurts the average US citizen. This tells me that theUS government supports big business. (I'll look for information on this.)

 

[Evo]

I don't see why Mexico would want to keep the people that are flooding into the US, they benefit if they leave, right? So Mexico needs to be made to feel enough pain that they start doing something about it. Does anyone actually know what Mexico's policy is on this?

I have a friend that wants to immigrate here from Italy. I did some research on visas and was shocked by the number of "legal" immigrants allowed here each year. The "green card" lottery alone gives out over 50,000 permanent residence visas annually, this is in addition to other visas. http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1318.html

 

[Huckleberry]

Why are we experiencing a new "wave" of new immigration?

The United States has recently experienced a rate of immigration that in numbers is close to the level of immigration that occurred at the turn of the last century. (Click to see chart) The combined legal and illegal immigration is well over one million per year. Foreign-born persons now constitute over 10% of the population for the first time since the 1930s. . There have been several reasons for this continuing increase over the past three decades:

Refugee immigration peaked in the late '70s and '80s as the U.S. admitted a large number of Southeast Asian, Cuban and Russian immigrants. Many individuals in these categories have become citizens which has enabled them to sponsor admission for their parents without any numeric limitation.
Two amnesty programs provided legal status to nearly 3 million undocumented immigrants and their families in the late '80s and early '90s. The immigrants legalized under these programs account for almost a quarter of all legal immigration from 1981 to 1995.
A large number of illegal immigrants continue to enter and stay in the country at a rate of 200,000 to 300,000 per year. In October 2001, the Census Bureau conservatively estimated that undocumented immigrants constitute approximately a quarter of all foreign born residents. The Department of Labor determined that in 1998 undocumented immigrants constituted over one half of all agricultural workers. The percentage has certainly grown since that time.

This site answers the why from a United States perspective
http://www.newsbatch.com/immigration.htm

Vicente Fox supports the immigration of Mexican citizens to the US citing article 11 of the Mexican Constitution

Article 11 of the Mexican Constitution which guarantees that all Mexicans have freedom of movement and the right to go where they wish.

http://www.visalaw.com/98sep/26sep98.html
75'000 Mexicans immigrate legally and Vicente Fox wishes to increase this number to 250'000. I have also found allegations that the Mexican border to the south deals very harshly with those that try to enter the country illegally. If there is any truth to this then it would seem clear that Mexican government encourages their citizens to enter the US by any means legal or illegal and will not punish them for doing so.

 

[Math Is Hard]

There is a strong correlation between population growth and poverty. Nations with a greater distribution of wealth will experience a growth in population mostly among the poor. This article gives a few reasons why poor people would want to have more children.
http://allfreeessays.com/student/Poverty_and_rapid_population_growth.html

And then you also have to consider that Mexico has about 90 million Catholics. AFAIK, birth control is still a no-no in that religion.

 

[SOS2008]

And then you also have to consider that Mexico has about 90 million Catholics. AFAIK, birth control is still a no-no in that religion.

Aside from Bush's constant catering to business interests, here is another reason he wants amnesty--this has created an increased constituency for the Republican religious right-wing agenda.

 

[Pengwuino]

You do realize SOS that people from Mexico are much much more likely to vote for democrats then republicans...

and lol, since he can't go up for re-election... seems unlikely that he's looking at them for re-election.

 

[SOS2008]

You do realize SOS that people from Mexico are much much more likely to vote for democrats then republicans...

and lol, since he can't go up for re-election... seems unlikely that he's looking at them for re-election.

I'm referring not only to the 2004 election, but the goals of the Republican party in general. Regular churchgoers disproportionately voted for the president 60 percent, and Bush did make inroads among Latino voters, garnering 42 percent support (7 percent more than four years ago). Don't you think these things make a difference when the election is 51% to 48%? Still, I believe this is mostly economically motivated--not wanting to add to the ills of the economy as well as Bush's pro-business philosophy in general.

 

[hitssquad]

George P. Bush, future president?

You do realize SOS that people from Mexico are much much more likely to vote for democrats then republicans

http://www.isteve.com/2000_Even_Bush_Cannot_Lure_Hispanics.htm

--
In his search for Hispanic votes, the Texas governor spoke Spanish frequently at ethnic rallies. (One unkind British pundit claimed that Bush had more need of a translator when he spoke English.) He won much applause for empathizing with illegal aliens, as exemplified by his often-repeated line, "Family values don't stop at the Rio Grande." He had his handsome half-Mexican nephew George P. Bush campaign extensively for him. Bush's only policy initiative related to immigration was a promise to reform the Immigration & Naturalization Service so that it would provide faster and politer service to immigrants.
--

since he can't go up for re-election... seems unlikely that he's looking at them for re-election.

Party politics and dynasty politics. There are more Bushes to come, including future presidential hopeful George P. Bush, a favorite among latinos.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e2099.htm

--
''He just popped out of nowhere, and now it's like, 'Ooh, la-la!' '' said Angelo Figueroa, managing editor of People en Espanol, the popular magazine's Spanish-language offshoot. ''He's hunky. There's definitely a buzz.''
--

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh pff... damn it. Bush needs to get off his high horse about illegals. I really wonder how much experience he actually has with illegals or maybe this is all RNC controlled like SOS said for future republican candidates. Meh... oh well... guess that's the problem with democracy... everyone has a vote lol.

 

[SOS2008]

Center for Immigration Studies

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/markoped021804.html

There has been much well-deserved criticism of President George W. Bush's proposed amnesty and guestworker plan. But its possible effect on America's sovereignty has seldom been mentioned, even though that may be the most harmful in the long term.

Although the president's proposal is not specific to Mexico, it would benefit that nation the most. Some 5 million of the estimated 8 million illegal aliens here are Mexican, and Mexico would likely be one of the main sources of the new guestworkers and increased permanent immigration also called for in the Bush plan.

This is important because, in the 1990s, Mexico embarked on a campaign of extending its political authority into the United States - not just over Mexican immigrants, but also naturalized and native-born Americans of Mexican ancestry. There are 10 million Mexican-born people in this country (including 5 million illegals) plus more than 10 million additional Americans of Mexican descent.

Now, this is not the fantasy of reconquista - retaking the Southwest, lost in the 1846-'48 Mexican War. Instead, it is an attempt to set up a special status for people of Mexican origin, like the status Europeans enjoyed in China in the 19th century.

There's nothing secret about this effort. President Vicente Fox once referred to himself as president of all 118 million Mexicans - the 100 million in Mexico and the (then-)18 million in the United States, the majority of whom are U.S. citizens. And this is a long-term proposition for them: In June 2001, Juan Hernandez, former head of Fox's cabinet-level office for relations with Mexicans abroad, said on ABC's "Nightline," "I want the third generation, the seventh generation, I want them all to think, 'Mexico first.”

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. Thus, the illegal-alien population in 2003 stands at at least 8 million. Included in this estimate are approximately 78,000 illegal aliens from countries who are of special concern in the war on terror.

…numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap, compliant labor from abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because our country lacks a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility. In addition, communities of recently arrived legal immigrants help create immigration networks used by illegal aliens and serve as incubators for illegal immigration, providing jobs, housing, and entree to America for illegal-alien relatives and fellow countrymen.

The standard response to illegal immigration has been increased border enforcement. And, in fact, such tightening of the border was long overdue. But there has been almost no attention paid to enforcement at worksites within the United States. Nor has there been any recognition that the networks created by high levels of legal immigration contribute to mass illegal immigration.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/release.html

WASHINGTON (July 12, 2001) — The Mexican government has expressed its strong support for an illegal-alien amnesty, and the Bush Administration is expected to propose a new Mexican guestworker program during President Fox’s state visit in September.

Among the report’s findings:

• Large-scale immigration from Mexico is a very recent phenomenon. In 1970, the Mexican immigrant population was less than 800,000, compared to nearly 8 million in 2000.
• Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in ten natives. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force.
• Though most natives are more skilled and thus do not face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants, this study (consistent with previous research) indicates that the more than 10 million natives who lack a high school degree do face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants.
• By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, Mexican immigration in the 1990s has reduced the wages of workers without a high school education by an estimated 5 percent. The workers affected are already the lowest-paid, comprising a large share of the working poor and those trying to move from welfare to work.
• This reduction in wages for the unskilled has likely reduced prices for consumers by only an estimated .08 to .2 percent in the 1990s. The impact is so small because unskilled labor accounts for only a tiny fraction of total economic output.

Guestworker programs are unlikely to solve the problems found in the study. By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, a guestworker program would still adversely effect the wages of the lowest-paid American workers. What’s more, unskilled guestworkers would be overwhelmingly poor or near-poor and thus would pay little in taxes and be likely to receive welfare on behalf of their U.S.-born children, just as many illegal immigrants do today. As a result, a guestworker program would almost certainly create significant fiscal costs. Thus, legalizing illegal aliens -- through a guestworker program, an amnesty, or some combination of the two -- would not change the fundamental problems associated with high levels of unskilled immigration.

A friend's son did not pass the new AIM test in high school, so probably won't be able to graduate--I wonder what he thinks he will do for a living.

 

[cronxeh]

wow if today's politics in America are based on looks, I seriously need to look for another planet

 

[Pengwuino]

Wait wait... so this a-hole thinks he's going to be able to order me around because my family is mexican?

 

[Huckleberry]

Of course not. It's just an attempt to bolster support in his own country, and maybe sap the US economy. Here is a profile of Vicente Fox that shows some of his personality traits.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/813206.stm
This is one half of the illegal immigration problem.

 

[moose]

How did I miss this thread...all I can say is that anyone and everyone who doesn't live near the border, has no clue how big the problem is. I wish that more than half my state spoke english :*(

 

[Pengwuino]

Pff, id say he IS the problem.

@cronxeh

See, this si why real problems can never get solved. People like you with no clue about what goes on here think its some sort of race problem. If these people were russians or french or germans coming across illegally, we'd be pissed off too. Half the problem is asians too but they have a much much harder time coming over and its much harder to control them because they come from a multitude of governments.

 

[SOS2008]

Of course not. It's just an attempt to bolster support in his own country, and maybe sap the US economy. Here is a profile of Vicente Fox that shows some of his personality traits.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/813206.stm
This is one half of the illegal immigration problem.

Wow, no wonder why Bush and Fox became such fast friends:

Mr Fox, the son of a wealthy Guanajuato farmer…now promoting himself as a down-to-earth man of the people…is known for his cowboy image and brash style.

…his critics say he is a personality, not a politician. "Fox is 90% image and 10% ideas"...

He can be controversial. During the electoral campaign he called his PRI rival Francisco Labastida a "sissy" and a transvestite, and was accused of flaunting his Catholicism when he used a banner of the Virgin of Guadeloupe, Mexico's most sacred religious symbol, during a political rally. He stopped using the banner.

He has also been criticised for his idea of privatising Petroleos de Mexico (PEMEX), considered by many Mexicans a symbol of their sovereignty.

Self-promotion - Mr Fox, 58 on election day, knows all about brand image - as a Coca Cola boss he ousted Pepsi as Mexico's top-selling soft drink.

Well except here at the end—he was actually a successful businessman so didn’t need Karl Rove to help him with oustings, selling ideas, etc.

 

[Pengwuino]

lol you guys and karl rove...

 

[cronxeh]

Pff, id say he IS the problem.

@cronxeh

See, this si why real problems can never get solved. People like you with no clue about what goes on here think its some sort of race problem. If these people were russians or french or germans coming across illegally, we'd be pissed off too. Half the problem is asians too but they have a much much harder time coming over and its much harder to control them because they come from a multitude of governments.

dont even try to classify me

everything is about race and around race in one way or the other. look at Canada - they only have 32 million people, with a territory that is slightly bigger than the US. Now look at Mexico and India - the population is out of control, partially thanks to global as well as local religion and other primal instincts.

what you think the US owes the Mexican citizens something? How about no. How about they take care of their own government and try to improve their quality of life before trying to flee an otherwise a free country, making the life of local populus along the border miserable

 

[Huckleberry]

what you think the US owes the Mexican citizens something? How about no. How about they take care of their own government and try to improve their quality of life before trying to flee an otherwise a free country, making the life of local populus along the border miserable

I agree with the US not owing anything to the Mexican citizens. The point is that they are taking care of their government and trying to improve their life. Their president, Vicente Fox supports the immigration of Mexicans to the US whether it is legal or illegal. Billions of US dollars are sent back into the Mexican economy every year because of Mexican workers in the US.
They improve their lives by finding a job here making minimum wage that pays them several times what they could make in Mexico. These people are risking their lives in some cases to come here and make a better life for their family. Until both nations have a vested interest in stopping immigration then the behavior will continue.