News Are Illegal Aliens Responsible for Environmental Issues in Arizona?

[Pengwuino]

Exactly. I don't know much about US/Mexican politics, but the problem is "why" these people are fleeing to the US. Until the "why" is resolved, people will continue to try to find a means to survive or follow an ill conceived dream of bettering it.

We got teh 'why' staring us right in the face down south. If Canada's governemnt was just as corrupt and the economy as screwed up as it is in Mexico, we'd have this problem up in Washington or ... whatever the other northern states are lol.

@Evo

The US government is not taking a serious approach at this. Bush seems to care more about the overall economic situation with them instead of the peoples views on it who actually live here. But then again it seems like half the people here want to make mexico apart of the US or visa versa and go off threatening people who speak English that "we're taking over soon white boy, you better learn spanish and learn to bow down to us" or some crap like that. I mean what self-respecting country allows this attitude? Its happened in the past but when did 2 wrong start making a right?

And this bilingual thing is going to probably cause big problems for me in my business. I have no chance in hell of succeeding if i have to keep spanish speakers around during normal business hours. I really do feel sorry for the people who only know Spanish and have to come to an English speaking country... but flip the situation around and I am sure Mexico isn't mandating everyone learn English for when someoen from the US walks by. I mean look at when your average American goes to france or italy or germany. They usually try to learn the language as best they can as quick as they can first and always have a dumb lil translator book with them. haha hey thatd be a good program... start handing out spanish-english translation books. If you can't stop the problem, at least help make business transactions a little easier for both parties.

 

[Huckleberry]

There is a strong correlation between population growth and poverty. Nations with a greater distribution of wealth will experience a growth in population mostly among the poor. This article gives a few reasons why poor people would want to have more children.
http://allfreeessays.com/student/Poverty_and_rapid_population_growth.html

What part of "illegal" are people not understanding? I can feel for the poor countries of the world, but I am not going to put my own country and standard of living at risk to try to solve the world's problems. The pressure on these countries to provide for their own is where the answer lies.

I think everyone understands that illegal immigration is illegal. Its a matter of economics. US citizens do not like the additional expense of illegal immigration. That seems fair. Mexican citizens want a better life and the US provides that opportunity. That seems fair too. The problem is in government policies of both the US and Mexico. Until this is resolved illegal immigrants will come to this country for better wages and education.

I suspect that US businesses are making a profit from NAFTA because they can employ workers from Central and Southern America at a much cheaper rate than US workers. Then they can ship the products here at little expense. They reap huge benefits and the US worker loses his job and suffers pay cuts elsewhere to keep business competitive. The opening of the borders to this kind of trade hurts the average US citizen. This tells me that theUS government supports big business. (I'll look for information on this.)

 

[Evo]

I don't see why Mexico would want to keep the people that are flooding into the US, they benefit if they leave, right? So Mexico needs to be made to feel enough pain that they start doing something about it. Does anyone actually know what Mexico's policy is on this?

I have a friend that wants to immigrate here from Italy. I did some research on visas and was shocked by the number of "legal" immigrants allowed here each year. The "green card" lottery alone gives out over 50,000 permanent residence visas annually, this is in addition to other visas. http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1318.html

 

[Huckleberry]

Why are we experiencing a new "wave" of new immigration?

The United States has recently experienced a rate of immigration that in numbers is close to the level of immigration that occurred at the turn of the last century. (Click to see chart) The combined legal and illegal immigration is well over one million per year. Foreign-born persons now constitute over 10% of the population for the first time since the 1930s. . There have been several reasons for this continuing increase over the past three decades:

Refugee immigration peaked in the late '70s and '80s as the U.S. admitted a large number of Southeast Asian, Cuban and Russian immigrants. Many individuals in these categories have become citizens which has enabled them to sponsor admission for their parents without any numeric limitation.
Two amnesty programs provided legal status to nearly 3 million undocumented immigrants and their families in the late '80s and early '90s. The immigrants legalized under these programs account for almost a quarter of all legal immigration from 1981 to 1995.
A large number of illegal immigrants continue to enter and stay in the country at a rate of 200,000 to 300,000 per year. In October 2001, the Census Bureau conservatively estimated that undocumented immigrants constitute approximately a quarter of all foreign born residents. The Department of Labor determined that in 1998 undocumented immigrants constituted over one half of all agricultural workers. The percentage has certainly grown since that time.

This site answers the why from a United States perspective
http://www.newsbatch.com/immigration.htm

Vicente Fox supports the immigration of Mexican citizens to the US citing article 11 of the Mexican Constitution

Article 11 of the Mexican Constitution which guarantees that all Mexicans have freedom of movement and the right to go where they wish.

http://www.visalaw.com/98sep/26sep98.html
75'000 Mexicans immigrate legally and Vicente Fox wishes to increase this number to 250'000. I have also found allegations that the Mexican border to the south deals very harshly with those that try to enter the country illegally. If there is any truth to this then it would seem clear that Mexican government encourages their citizens to enter the US by any means legal or illegal and will not punish them for doing so.

 

[Math Is Hard]

There is a strong correlation between population growth and poverty. Nations with a greater distribution of wealth will experience a growth in population mostly among the poor. This article gives a few reasons why poor people would want to have more children.
http://allfreeessays.com/student/Poverty_and_rapid_population_growth.html

And then you also have to consider that Mexico has about 90 million Catholics. AFAIK, birth control is still a no-no in that religion.

 

[SOS2008]

And then you also have to consider that Mexico has about 90 million Catholics. AFAIK, birth control is still a no-no in that religion.

Aside from Bush's constant catering to business interests, here is another reason he wants amnesty--this has created an increased constituency for the Republican religious right-wing agenda.

 

[Pengwuino]

You do realize SOS that people from Mexico are much much more likely to vote for democrats then republicans...

and lol, since he can't go up for re-election... seems unlikely that he's looking at them for re-election.

 

[SOS2008]

You do realize SOS that people from Mexico are much much more likely to vote for democrats then republicans...

and lol, since he can't go up for re-election... seems unlikely that he's looking at them for re-election.

I'm referring not only to the 2004 election, but the goals of the Republican party in general. Regular churchgoers disproportionately voted for the president 60 percent, and Bush did make inroads among Latino voters, garnering 42 percent support (7 percent more than four years ago). Don't you think these things make a difference when the election is 51% to 48%? Still, I believe this is mostly economically motivated--not wanting to add to the ills of the economy as well as Bush's pro-business philosophy in general.

 

[hitssquad]

George P. Bush, future president?

You do realize SOS that people from Mexico are much much more likely to vote for democrats then republicans

http://www.isteve.com/2000_Even_Bush_Cannot_Lure_Hispanics.htm

--
In his search for Hispanic votes, the Texas governor spoke Spanish frequently at ethnic rallies. (One unkind British pundit claimed that Bush had more need of a translator when he spoke English.) He won much applause for empathizing with illegal aliens, as exemplified by his often-repeated line, "Family values don't stop at the Rio Grande." He had his handsome half-Mexican nephew George P. Bush campaign extensively for him. Bush's only policy initiative related to immigration was a promise to reform the Immigration & Naturalization Service so that it would provide faster and politer service to immigrants.
--

since he can't go up for re-election... seems unlikely that he's looking at them for re-election.

Party politics and dynasty politics. There are more Bushes to come, including future presidential hopeful George P. Bush, a favorite among latinos.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e2099.htm

--
''He just popped out of nowhere, and now it's like, 'Ooh, la-la!' '' said Angelo Figueroa, managing editor of People en Espanol, the popular magazine's Spanish-language offshoot. ''He's hunky. There's definitely a buzz.''
--

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh pff... damn it. Bush needs to get off his high horse about illegals. I really wonder how much experience he actually has with illegals or maybe this is all RNC controlled like SOS said for future republican candidates. Meh... oh well... guess that's the problem with democracy... everyone has a vote lol.

 

[SOS2008]

Center for Immigration Studies

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/markoped021804.html

There has been much well-deserved criticism of President George W. Bush's proposed amnesty and guestworker plan. But its possible effect on America's sovereignty has seldom been mentioned, even though that may be the most harmful in the long term.

Although the president's proposal is not specific to Mexico, it would benefit that nation the most. Some 5 million of the estimated 8 million illegal aliens here are Mexican, and Mexico would likely be one of the main sources of the new guestworkers and increased permanent immigration also called for in the Bush plan.

This is important because, in the 1990s, Mexico embarked on a campaign of extending its political authority into the United States - not just over Mexican immigrants, but also naturalized and native-born Americans of Mexican ancestry. There are 10 million Mexican-born people in this country (including 5 million illegals) plus more than 10 million additional Americans of Mexican descent.

Now, this is not the fantasy of reconquista - retaking the Southwest, lost in the 1846-'48 Mexican War. Instead, it is an attempt to set up a special status for people of Mexican origin, like the status Europeans enjoyed in China in the 19th century.

There's nothing secret about this effort. President Vicente Fox once referred to himself as president of all 118 million Mexicans - the 100 million in Mexico and the (then-)18 million in the United States, the majority of whom are U.S. citizens. And this is a long-term proposition for them: In June 2001, Juan Hernandez, former head of Fox's cabinet-level office for relations with Mexicans abroad, said on ABC's "Nightline," "I want the third generation, the seventh generation, I want them all to think, 'Mexico first.”

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. Thus, the illegal-alien population in 2003 stands at at least 8 million. Included in this estimate are approximately 78,000 illegal aliens from countries who are of special concern in the war on terror.

…numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap, compliant labor from abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because our country lacks a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility. In addition, communities of recently arrived legal immigrants help create immigration networks used by illegal aliens and serve as incubators for illegal immigration, providing jobs, housing, and entree to America for illegal-alien relatives and fellow countrymen.

The standard response to illegal immigration has been increased border enforcement. And, in fact, such tightening of the border was long overdue. But there has been almost no attention paid to enforcement at worksites within the United States. Nor has there been any recognition that the networks created by high levels of legal immigration contribute to mass illegal immigration.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/release.html

WASHINGTON (July 12, 2001) — The Mexican government has expressed its strong support for an illegal-alien amnesty, and the Bush Administration is expected to propose a new Mexican guestworker program during President Fox’s state visit in September.

Among the report’s findings:

• Large-scale immigration from Mexico is a very recent phenomenon. In 1970, the Mexican immigrant population was less than 800,000, compared to nearly 8 million in 2000.
• Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in ten natives. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force.
• Though most natives are more skilled and thus do not face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants, this study (consistent with previous research) indicates that the more than 10 million natives who lack a high school degree do face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants.
• By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, Mexican immigration in the 1990s has reduced the wages of workers without a high school education by an estimated 5 percent. The workers affected are already the lowest-paid, comprising a large share of the working poor and those trying to move from welfare to work.
• This reduction in wages for the unskilled has likely reduced prices for consumers by only an estimated .08 to .2 percent in the 1990s. The impact is so small because unskilled labor accounts for only a tiny fraction of total economic output.

Guestworker programs are unlikely to solve the problems found in the study. By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, a guestworker program would still adversely effect the wages of the lowest-paid American workers. What’s more, unskilled guestworkers would be overwhelmingly poor or near-poor and thus would pay little in taxes and be likely to receive welfare on behalf of their U.S.-born children, just as many illegal immigrants do today. As a result, a guestworker program would almost certainly create significant fiscal costs. Thus, legalizing illegal aliens -- through a guestworker program, an amnesty, or some combination of the two -- would not change the fundamental problems associated with high levels of unskilled immigration.

A friend's son did not pass the new AIM test in high school, so probably won't be able to graduate--I wonder what he thinks he will do for a living.

 

[cronxeh]

wow if today's politics in America are based on looks, I seriously need to look for another planet

 

[Pengwuino]

Wait wait... so this a-hole thinks he's going to be able to order me around because my family is mexican?

 

[Huckleberry]

Of course not. It's just an attempt to bolster support in his own country, and maybe sap the US economy. Here is a profile of Vicente Fox that shows some of his personality traits.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/813206.stm
This is one half of the illegal immigration problem.

 

[moose]

How did I miss this thread...all I can say is that anyone and everyone who doesn't live near the border, has no clue how big the problem is. I wish that more than half my state spoke english :*(

 

[Pengwuino]

Pff, id say he IS the problem.

@cronxeh

See, this si why real problems can never get solved. People like you with no clue about what goes on here think its some sort of race problem. If these people were russians or french or germans coming across illegally, we'd be pissed off too. Half the problem is asians too but they have a much much harder time coming over and its much harder to control them because they come from a multitude of governments.

 

[SOS2008]

Of course not. It's just an attempt to bolster support in his own country, and maybe sap the US economy. Here is a profile of Vicente Fox that shows some of his personality traits.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/813206.stm
This is one half of the illegal immigration problem.

Wow, no wonder why Bush and Fox became such fast friends:

Mr Fox, the son of a wealthy Guanajuato farmer…now promoting himself as a down-to-earth man of the people…is known for his cowboy image and brash style.

…his critics say he is a personality, not a politician. "Fox is 90% image and 10% ideas"...

He can be controversial. During the electoral campaign he called his PRI rival Francisco Labastida a "sissy" and a transvestite, and was accused of flaunting his Catholicism when he used a banner of the Virgin of Guadeloupe, Mexico's most sacred religious symbol, during a political rally. He stopped using the banner.

He has also been criticised for his idea of privatising Petroleos de Mexico (PEMEX), considered by many Mexicans a symbol of their sovereignty.

Self-promotion - Mr Fox, 58 on election day, knows all about brand image - as a Coca Cola boss he ousted Pepsi as Mexico's top-selling soft drink.

Well except here at the end—he was actually a successful businessman so didn’t need Karl Rove to help him with oustings, selling ideas, etc.

 

[Pengwuino]

lol you guys and karl rove...

 

[cronxeh]

Pff, id say he IS the problem.

@cronxeh

See, this si why real problems can never get solved. People like you with no clue about what goes on here think its some sort of race problem. If these people were russians or french or germans coming across illegally, we'd be pissed off too. Half the problem is asians too but they have a much much harder time coming over and its much harder to control them because they come from a multitude of governments.

dont even try to classify me

everything is about race and around race in one way or the other. look at Canada - they only have 32 million people, with a territory that is slightly bigger than the US. Now look at Mexico and India - the population is out of control, partially thanks to global as well as local religion and other primal instincts.

what you think the US owes the Mexican citizens something? How about no. How about they take care of their own government and try to improve their quality of life before trying to flee an otherwise a free country, making the life of local populus along the border miserable

 

[Huckleberry]

what you think the US owes the Mexican citizens something? How about no. How about they take care of their own government and try to improve their quality of life before trying to flee an otherwise a free country, making the life of local populus along the border miserable

I agree with the US not owing anything to the Mexican citizens. The point is that they are taking care of their government and trying to improve their life. Their president, Vicente Fox supports the immigration of Mexicans to the US whether it is legal or illegal. Billions of US dollars are sent back into the Mexican economy every year because of Mexican workers in the US.
They improve their lives by finding a job here making minimum wage that pays them several times what they could make in Mexico. These people are risking their lives in some cases to come here and make a better life for their family. Until both nations have a vested interest in stopping immigration then the behavior will continue.

 

[Pengwuino]

@cronxeh

ha, classify you, this outta get good.

Just because you think everythings about race doesn't mean it is fortunately. When did i say the US owes the mexican citizens anything? And yes, exactly, they should improve their lives instead of illegally running across the border, thank you for completely agreeing with me yet acting like an ass about it.

 

[SOS2008]

@cronxeh

ha, classify you, this outta get good.

Just because you think everythings about race doesn't mean it is fortunately. When did i say the US owes the mexican citizens anything? And yes, exactly, they should improve their lives instead of illegally running across the border, thank you for completely agreeing with me yet acting like an ass about it.

Oh m'gosh I think we have a flame! Sounds like agreement then, that people do not have the right to enter another country illegally for any reason.

 

[Pengwuino]

What? what was the flame lol. Man, I am immune to these subtle or small flames

 

[cronxeh]

i was slightly drunk last night.. or was it this morning.. meh

so anyway. Mexicans and Indians have reproduced too much - simple, cold, and engineering-accurate. Control your population and you won't have poverty and despair

 

[SOS2008]

Just imagine what their lives must have been like if they decided that it was better to move to the US and risk everything and be homeless in a foreign country where they probably don't even speak the native language. I wouldn't like the bottles and feces in my backyard, but people have to eat and drink. Can anyone resent them for trying to improve their lives?

First of all, there are many countries with poverty and conditions far worse than in Mexico. Should the U.S. accept all these people because these people are suffering, or in the case of Mexicans, because they want the American Dream? As the standard of living falls due to these immense pressures on our system, I'm sure you won't mind all of us Americans coming across the northern border into Canada, right? Countries are supposed to be sovereign, meaning they have the right to control their borders and to choose who they will allow to enter. There is no excuse for the violation of this right of any country, even a wealthy country like the U.S., by any group of people just because they want a better life. I don't accept any such arguments for any reason.

 

[Kerrie]

First of all, there are many countries with poverty and conditions far worse than in Mexico. Should the U.S. accept all these people because these people are suffering, or in the case of Mexicans, because they want the American Dream? As the standard of living falls due to these immense pressures on our system, I'm sure you won't mind all of us Americans coming across the northern border into Canada, right? Countries are supposed to be sovereign, meaning they have the right to control their borders and to choose who they will allow to enter. There is no excuse for the violation of this right of any country, even a wealthy country like the U.S., by any group of people just because they want a better life. I don't accept any such arguments for any reason.

I couldn't agree with this statement more. Further to add, american-born citizens should then be more grateful to live in such a wealthy nation. It's easier to complain about the politics but never give praise to what a great place it is to live. My relatives immigrated here in the early part of the century and during WWII. They worked for their citizenship too, not just took advantage of what America has to offer.

Are these illegal aliens coming here to America mostly just to work for higher wages and send the money back to their homeland, or do they want to establish some sort of citizenship eventually? I am all for the establishment of a new home in our country, but illegals immigrating just to send money out of our country seems harmful. Maybe I am wrong..

 

[SOS2008]

Oh pff... damn it. Bush needs to get off his high horse about illegals. I really wonder how much experience he actually has with illegals or maybe this is all RNC controlled like SOS said for future republican candidates. Meh... oh well... guess that's the problem with democracy... everyone has a vote lol.

There has been debate whether illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote. As hard as it is to imagine, it just shows the misguided thinking that exists in this country.

 

[Pengwuino]

They have been trying to get the California voters to approve a measure to give licenses to illegal aliens. The referendum failed and theri attempts to sneak the measures in through riders and such have also failed. I mean its so hard for me to comprehend the actual legal justification for this if there is any at all. They go "oh well, if they get licenses, that means they'll also pay insurance which means if you get into an accident, they will pay for the damage". Oh and magical bees will come out and fix your car right on the road gee golly gosh! I mean come on, there's a lot of US citizens who don't even bother getting licenses let alone getting insurance!

I mean pff, might as well try to convince me that we should hand out business licenses to drug dealers because "then they'll do it legally and pay taxes"

 

[SOS2008]

I couldn't agree with this statement more. Further to add, american-born citizens should then be more grateful to live in such a wealthy nation. It's easier to complain about the politics but never give praise to what a great place it is to live. My relatives immigrated here in the early part of the century and during WWII. They worked for their citizenship too, not just took advantage of what America has to offer.

Are these illegal aliens coming here to America mostly just to work for higher wages and send the money back to their homeland, or do they want to establish some sort of citizenship eventually? I am all for the establishment of a new home in our country, but illegals immigrating just to send money out of our country seems harmful. Maybe I am wrong..

I believe most would like permanent citizenship, but in the meantime they have loved ones at home that they send money to until they too can cross the border. Often the money earned was paid cash under the table--nothing withheld in taxes for services our country offers. Still it is the sovereign right of the U.S. to choose who can enter, meaning checking for criminal records, disease, income, education, etc. Per earlier posts, you will see that most of these aliens would not qualify via legal processing.

 

[Pengwuino]

I think getting permanent citizenship would easily be taken by them if they got the opportunity. It still allows them to go see ther family and they are legally allowed back intot he country. A lot of the money is sent back to their families but hey, their money, they worked for it, what can you do hehe. And SOS, they check your income and education level for citizenship approval?