Are open access journals legit for my CV?

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Open access journals can be legitimate for CV citations, but their quality varies significantly. The discussion highlights concerns about publication fees and the potential for predatory practices in some open access journals. It emphasizes the importance of evaluating a journal's reputation, impact factor, and peer review process before submission. The presence of reputable editors, like Carlo Rovelli, can lend credibility, but caution is advised if the review process seems inadequate. Ultimately, the decision to cite these journals should be based on their acceptance in the relevant field and the quality of the review received.
  • #61
Dr.AbeNikIanEdL said:
My take is, after this statement of an editor:
the journal really looses any credibility. There is no reason to trust an article published in that way any more than one just uploaded to the arxive. I don't really see how names of other scientists being attached to the journal in one or the other way changes anything. If you know that there is no proper review, you are really just trying to get a "published" stamp on your article in the hope to trick someone into thinking that it has been reviewed.

Well, if there is a seeming contradiction then it means that we are confused about something which calls for further discussion to see where the confusion is.

As far as my earlier question about editorial board, you already answered it: they could have lied and wrote that Rovelli is on that board when he isn't really there (as evident from the fact that on Rovelli's own page he doesn't list that journal).

But now there is a different question. What about the scientists that actually send their papers there? Are you saying that they aren't really their papers and they didn't really send them there, and the journal just put their names in order to self-promote? Or if, indeed, they did sent their papers there, what would be their motivation to do so?
 
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  • #62
Dr. Courtney said:
Do you want to "do" theoretical physics or do you want to get "PAID" for a job that is mostly doing theoretical physics. If you want to "do" theoretical physics, then get some teaching experience before you graduate, and get a job teaching physics at a teaching focused college. After your first couple of years, you'll have about 10 hours a week during the semesters and 40 hours a week during the summers to "do" theoretical physics.

Getting "PAID" to do theoretical physics is a much taller order that only the very best manage to accomplish. You have not made the kind of impression here on PF that you're a great prospect for that career.

i want to get paid to do theoretical physics. I agree that so far I wasn't doing well in this regard. But I would like to make whatever changes necessary in the future to increase this possibility.

Dr. Courtney said:
I prefer to think for myself regarding the quality of journals in physics and the other fields in which I have published. I don't need a librarian doing the thinking for me. I learn more from an hour perusing a journal for myself that from simply whether or not a librarian has added it to a list meeting certain criteria. But at the same time, I realize others may give the librarian's list undue weight without more careful consideration of a given journal.

Since most people don't have time to do a research regarding the journal some random person has published at, what would statistically count is something that is up at the surface easy for all to see -- and that is precisely what the librarian would be looking at.

Dr. Courtney said:
You've gotten plenty of good advice from a number of PhD Physicists, and you seem strongly inclined to ignore their advice regarding that specific journal. Therefore, I'm not inclined to make the effort to conduct an independent investigation and add my opinion to the list you seem most likely to ignore. One wonders if you are simply fishing for one opinion that agrees with your predetermined course of action.

I didn't ignore that advice. Case in point: the editor of that journal took my correspondence as an indication that I don't want that paper published there. I didn't correct him. Why not? Because of the advice I was given in this thread. If it wasn't for the advice, this paper would have been published by now (I was given 48 hour deadline to approve the proofs and its already been 4 days or so). The reason why this didn't happen is because of the feedback I received.

If I ask further questions this doesn't mean I ignore the feedback.
 
  • #63
EternalStudent said:
Well, if there is a seeming contradiction then it means that we are confused about something which calls for further discussion to see where the confusion is.
EternalStudent said:
But now there is a different question. What about the scientists that actually send their papers there? [...]

What? I said, with what you have reported so far, it does not matter for my opinion about this journal who is associated with it in whatever way. Where do you see a "seeming contradiction"?
 
  • #64
EternalStudent said:
Since most people don't have time to do a research regarding the journal some random person has published at, what would statistically count is something that is up at the surface easy for all to see -- and that is precisely what the librarian would be looking at.

I don't care about the reputation of journals "some random person" has published at. I need a specific reason to care enough to render an informed opinion.

If I'm on a hiring committee or otherwise evaluating a CV, I care about the quality of the person's scientific abilities. I'm going to read a few of their scientific papers and not pay attention to the journals or their reputations. The papers they wrote contain much more valuable information for the decision my evaluation matters for than other papers in the same journals.

The only case where the quality of a journal matters to me is when I'm advising a student whose research I've mentored or advising my co-authors regarding which journal may best fit our needs in publishing. In either case, by this stage, I've acquired enough knowledge in a field to spend an hour or so reading papers from each candidate journal to get an idea of the journal's suitability for the paper in question.

As I explained before, I view these decisions as trade-offs between possible delays in publication if one aims too high (and the paper gets rejected) and possible not optimizing the opportunity to enhance a student's or colleague's career (if one aims too low). Just because I don't care about journal reputation when reviewing applications doesn't mean no one else does. Early in their careers, students and scientists with only a few publications may benefit from publishing in more highly regarded journals, because lots of committee members seldom look beyond journal reputation.
 
  • #65
Dr.AbeNikIanEdL said:
What? I said, with what you have reported so far, it does not matter for my opinion about this journal who is associated with it in whatever way. Where do you see a "seeming contradiction"?

Contradiction between these two things:

a) The fact that editor does not do proper peer review indicates that the journal is fake

b) The fact that high profile scientists publish there indicates that it isn't.
 
  • #66
Dr. Courtney said:
If I'm on a hiring committee or otherwise evaluating a CV, I care about the quality of the person's scientific abilities. I'm going to read a few of their scientific papers and not pay attention to the journals or their reputations. The papers they wrote contain much more valuable information for the decision my evaluation matters for than other papers in the same journals.

But then why is it considered essential to get a paper published in a journal instead of just leaving it in the arXiv?
 
  • #67
EternalStudent said:
But then why is it considered essential to get a paper published in a journal instead of just leaving it in the arXiv?

Because not everyone thinks like I do when it comes to evaluating a body of work.

As I mentioned above, when it came to faculty hiring and promotion, the Air Force Academy had two main questions for each publication listed:
1. Was it in a peer-reviewed journal?
2. How many times has it been cited?

I've got several papers that have only been published at arXiv, and I've noticed my papers in peer-reviewed journals get a lot more citations. Many authors are reluctant to cite papers that are not in peer-reviewed journals. (I'm not.)

Knowing how academia and the professional world works, I could not in good conscience recommend to students or colleagues they be content having all their published papers only in arXiv.

I have the professional confidence to have a few papers arXiv-only (or other unreviewed places) since I'm in the second half of my career and I have a lot of papers in top-tier journals.

Most students and early career scientists would do well to have at least half their papers in peer-reviewed journals.
 
  • #68
Dr. Courtney said:
Because not everyone thinks like I do when it comes to evaluating a body of work.

As I mentioned above, when it came to faculty hiring and promotion, the Air Force Academy had two main questions for each publication listed:
1. Was it in a peer-reviewed journal?
2. How many times has it been cited?

I've got several papers that have only been published at arXiv, and I've noticed my papers in peer-reviewed journals get a lot more citations. Many authors are reluctant to cite papers that are not in peer-reviewed journals. (I'm not.)

Knowing how academia and the professional world works, I could not in good conscience recommend to students or colleagues they be content having all their published papers only in arXiv.

I have the professional confidence to have a few papers arXiv-only (or other unreviewed places) since I'm in the second half of my career and I have a lot of papers in top-tier journals.

Most students and early career scientists would do well to have at least half their papers in peer-reviewed journals.

So then I could phrase my question this way. Consider three papers, all published by someone in the early stage of the career:

Paper A was posted in the arXiv and wasn't published in any journal

Paper B was posted in arXiv and -- in addition to that -- was published in one of the jounrals that is listed in the "predatory journal" list

Paper C was posted in arXiv and -- in addition to that -- was published in IJQF (the one we were talking about in this thread)

From what I gathered, all three would be viewed unfavorably. But would they be viewed "equally unfavorably" or would there be differences between just how unfavorably they are looked at?

And I realize you mentioned that you tend to focus more on the content while others on the committee tend to focus more on the source. So, in this context, I would like to know about the way others in the committe would see it.
 
  • #69
EternalStudent said:
So then I could phrase my question this way. Consider three papers, all published by someone in the early stage of the career:

Paper A was posted in the arXiv and wasn't published in any journal

Paper B was posted in arXiv and -- in addition to that -- was published in one of the jounrals that is listed in the "predatory journal" list

Paper C was posted in arXiv and -- in addition to that -- was published in IJQF (the one we were talking about in this thread)

From what I gathered, all three would be viewed unfavorably. But would they be viewed "equally unfavorably" or would there be differences between just how unfavorably they are looked at?

And I realize you mentioned that you tend to focus more on the content while others on the committee tend to focus more on the source. So, in this context, I would like to know about the way others in the committe would see it.

I could not in good conscience encourage a student or scientist early in their careers to put themselves in any of the above situations you seem to be contemplating.
 
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  • #70
EternalStudent said:
Contradiction between these two things:

a) The fact that editor does not do proper peer review indicates that the journal is fake

b) The fact that high profile scientists publish there indicates that it isn't.

What is considered proper peer review varies from field to field, and from person to person. And one can have inadequate peer review at reputable journals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_affair
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/bogdanoff/
 
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  • #71
atyy said:
What is considered proper peer review varies from field to field, and from person to person. And one can have inadequate peer review at reputable journals.

So I guess the issue is for the journal in question to *usually* have good peer review with most of its *other* papers.

If one has bad peer review in a journal that usually has good peer reviews, then one gets really lucky. Their paper gets all this credibility for nothing.

If, on the other hand, one has good peer review in a journal that usually has bad peer reviews, then one gets really un-lucky. Not only they had to go through all those struggles to get their paper published, but their paper isn't trusted once it was.
 
  • #72
EternalStudent said:
So I guess the issue is for the journal in question to *usually* have good peer review with most of its *other* papers.

If one has bad peer review in a journal that usually has good peer reviews, then one gets really lucky. Their paper gets all this credibility for nothing.

If, on the other hand, one has good peer review in a journal that usually has bad peer reviews, then one gets really un-lucky. Not only they had to go through all those struggles to get their paper published, but their paper isn't trusted once it was.

In the long run, most good science usually gets due credit regardless of the reputation of the journal of record or peer-review issues. As I mentioned before, my most highly cited paper (100+ citations) was not even in a peer-reviewed journal.

Another paper that was not peer-reviewed has exceeded my expectations with a couple dozen citations even though it was published in a little known journal (Physics in Canada) in reply to a review article by a much better known physicist. Although his lifetime citations dwarf my own, to date my published reply to his review has about 4 times more citations than his original review.

Most of my other non peer-reviewed papers have less than 10 citations. But in many cases they have pointed out mistakes and errors in peer-reviewed papers, and consequently they have had a significant impact in "encouraging" scientists in those field to be more careful.

My point is, in the long run, the scientific community takes note when one publishes something that is correct, important, and useful. The status of the journal and whether or not the article was peer-reviewed are less important once the broader scientific community takes notice.

There are a couple of cases when I published papers (alone or with a co-author) that have not hardly been cited at all, yet have been influential. One paper's influence can be measured not by its citations but rather by the thousands of downloads of the analysis code it describes. Another paper's influence is recognized because it was plagiarized and it's novel method copied exactly.

Spend more time doing good work and less time counting the beans. If you do good enough scientific work, the beans will flow.
 
  • #73
EternalStudent said:
So I guess the issue is for the journal in question to *usually* have good peer review with most of its *other* papers.

If one has bad peer review in a journal that usually has good peer reviews, then one gets really lucky. Their paper gets all this credibility for nothing.

If, on the other hand, one has good peer review in a journal that usually has bad peer reviews, then one gets really un-lucky. Not only they had to go through all those struggles to get their paper published, but their paper isn't trusted once it was.

Ultimately, the paper is either right or wrong, and it is the author that is responsible for it. Sometimes it can take a long time to figure out what is happening.

This paper probably had reasonable peer review, but the authors reported a possible problem with the results more than a year after publication.
https://www.tudelft.nl/en/2020/tnw/...t-quantized-majorana-conductance-publication/

Wiles's first claim to have proved Fermat's last theorem was found to be flawed by peer review, but the level of peer review in that field is probably more stringent than in many other fields.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles's_proof_of_Fermat's_Last_Theorem
 
  • #74
Dr. Courtney said:
Spend more time doing good work and less time counting the beans. If you do good enough scientific work, the beans will flow.

But you have, yourself, said earlier that at the early stage of the career the reputation of journals is important. So how does this go together with your current advice?
 
  • #75
atyy said:
Ultimately, the paper is either right or wrong, and it is the author that is responsible for it.

The work being "right" doesn't warrant the publication. For example, if I submit a correct solution to a homework problem, nobody will publish it. In addition to being right, it has to be "interesting" and "important". The latter two things are subjective and depend on the judgement of the referees.
 
  • #76
EternalStudent said:
But you have, yourself, said earlier that at the early stage of the career the reputation of journals is important. So how does this go together with your current advice?

You are starting to seem like students I've had who spend more time arguing about their grade than learning the material well enough to earn a good grade in the first place. I'm beginning to think that your work may not be of the quality to publish in a better journal. If that's the case, submitting to a journal with the better reputation won't help, it will only delay the eventual publication of your work in a lower tier journal.

Remember I said, "In the long run, most good science usually gets due credit regardless of the reputation of the journal of record or peer-review issues." Most students, when applying for their first job after completing their PhD have not had their work out there long enough to have been widely recognized and cited. Therefore, they're depending on the reputation of the journals and the recommendation of their research advisor.

When I graduated, I was first author on two papers in PRL, and three papers in PRA. But none of these papers had any citations yet. (By now, they have hundreds.) So at the time, the work was only recognized by the quality of the journals, not by the broader community.

There is one student I've mentored who is first author on 8 publications that have a few dozen citations before he completes his BS in Physics. His most highly cited paper was a top 10 download the year it was published. But this student is a rare exception. Most students don't publish until their last year or so, and their papers simply don't enough time to be recognized and cited before they are applying for jobs. It is within this time window that journal reputation is so important. But this student is so good that his first seven papers were accepted by the first journal he submitted them to, none of them being open access or of questionable quality.

The tier of journal a paper is likely to be published in is limited by the quality of the paper. Being good is a prerequisite for looking good.
 
  • #77
EternalStudent said:
a) The fact that editor does not do proper peer review indicates that the journal is fake

Not fake in the sense that it would not actually publish documents.

EternalStudent said:
b) The fact that high profile scientists publish there indicates that it isn't.

I don't think that high profile scientist are infallible.
 
  • #78
EternalStudent said:
Because of the advice I was given in this thread. If it wasn't for the advice, this paper would have been published by now (I was given 48 hour deadline to approve the proofs and its already been 4 days or so).

Trust me, if the check clears, missing a deadline won't matter a whit.
 
  • #79
EternalStudent said:
International Journal of Quantum Foundations
I'm not an academic so I probably should keep my thoughts to myself. But...

I went to the website of the mentioned journal. I could read the table of contents for all of their issues, and download any of the papers. If you (the OP) look through the contents, look at the authors. Do you want your paper next to theirs? If you read their papers, do you want yours next to theirs? For this journal you can review the entire (5 year) history. Is it consistently "good" or is it declining?

The papers I looked at there are also available on arXiv . Is it possible that a journal can copy a paper from arXiv and put it on their site, claiming to "publish" it without the author's knowledge?
 
  • #80
gmax137 said:
The papers I looked at there are also available on arXiv . Is it possible that a journal can copy a paper from arXiv and put it on their site, claiming to "publish" it without the author's knowledge?

That is a very interesting question. There are several papers that were put on the arXiv years ago and now appear in one of these journals. And without appearing on the authors' pub lists. I'm not saying what happened is what you suggest, but if what you suggest is what happened, we'd see pretty much what we see.
 
  • #81
This is not my world, so I wasn't sure just how predatory a "predatory" journal can be.

I am not suggesting anything about any specific journals.
 
  • #82
gmax137 said:
The papers I looked at there are also available on arXiv . Is it possible that a journal can copy a paper from arXiv and put it on their site, claiming to "publish" it without the author's knowledge?

It is a common practice to submit the paper to arXiv before sending it to the journal. So if you look at most "proper" journals you will see the same thing.

This, however, does not exude the possibility you described. I am just saying that you can't really prove it. But you can't disprove it either.
 
  • #83
Dr. Courtney said:
You are starting to seem like students I've had who spend more time arguing about their grade than learning the material well enough to earn a good grade in the first place.

Incidentally, with grades it happened to me too. Case in point: I got an A for high school bio, and I got a D for college bio but -- in terms of my knowledge -- these two grades should have been switched around. Because in high school bio I was asked to memorize cell structure and all sorts of things, while in college bio 2/3 of the course was just ecology and evolution that is all nice and easy. But you see, in high school bio, the teacher actually told us what the test questions were going to be several days in advance and had us memorize the correct answers. Thats why I memorized it, got an A, and then forgot the whole thing. On the other hand, in college bio, they had multiple choice exams where they "tricked" us by having some answers "almost correct" with one detail wrong. I happened to missed these little details so I got a D.

With other courses things were not nearly as extreme (most of my grades are A and B). But there were plenty of times when I got an A for the math and physics courses I didn't understand that well and I got a B for the math and physics courses that I understood much better. Oftentimes it was due to the curve. Like if I take a difficult class, I might not understand it that well, but then the curve will bring my grade up to an A. On the other hand, if I take an easy class, I might understand it well, but make sloppy mistakes (like saying minus times minus is minus or forgetting the factor of 2) but because everyone else did so well in it, that would be enough to get my grade down to a B. By the way this didn't apply to the bio classes as neither of the two had any curve.

Then the grades for English classes is the whole other matter. Since in this case they have us write essays, and the criteria for grading the essays are entirely subjective. Back in high school they weren't that picky so I got my As and Bs for the English classes, but then the first time I took English at the community college I was getting a D in it, which I avoided by dropping it so I got W instead, and then my mom hired a tutor. When I retook that English class in the summer I got an A in it. Yes, the fact that the tutor looked over my essays probably helped, but I doubt I would have been getting a D in that summer class anyway. The instructor was different so his subjective judgement was also different.

The good news is that my current GPA is much higher than what it used to be. Back when I was an undergrad it was slighly below 3.3 (I don't remember if it was 3.28 or 3.29, but probably something like that) while right now it is 3.94. Part of it is that in graduate school they like to inflate grades, and the other part is that the school I am currently at is one of the lower tear schools while the school I been undergrad at was one of the top schools. But I don't think those two factors are the only ones. I think (or at least I hope) that I did probably master the habbits that allowed me to get better grades over the years. Although of course GPA doesn't matter any more.

Dr. Courtney said:
I'm beginning to think that your work may not be of the quality to publish in a better journal.

Well, one area where the analogy between courses and research doesn't hold is that, in case of the research, one has to convince the referees that it is important enough to warrant publication. In case of courses you don't have to do that. So in my case one thing that hindered me is that I came up with the problems on my own that nobody else finds interesting or relevant. Since "interesting" is a subjective notion, it is really up to the luck whether the referee will agree with me that its interesting or not.

I realize, however, that I can't exactly make that case because the other problem with my papers is that they are very sloppy (even to my own eyes). Part of it is that a lot of them are like 40 pages long with lots of formulas that take several lines each, so I don't have patience to sit down and fix all my errors (which I find a lot when I try). But maybe one thing I can do is this. The reason my papers are so long is that each topic has many different sub-topics that then branch out to other topics. So maybe I should break those papers into several papers one devoted to each sub-topic. And then if each paper will be like 10 pages long I would have more patience to edit it properly.

Out of the 30 papers on the arXiv, 4 finally got published. Out of those 4 papers, 3 were pertaining to those issues that nobody finds interesting besides me, and, out of those 3 papers, 2 papers were published in reputable journals (one was Physics Review D the other one was Journal of Mathematical Physics). So its possible, it just takes a lot of time. But, in both of those papers, I convinced other scientists to be my co-authors, and they contributted quite a bit to fleshing out what I wrote. So maybe I should do the same with the other papers.

Dr. Courtney said:
If that's the case, submitting to a journal with the better reputation won't help, it will only delay the eventual publication of your work in a lower tier journal.

Lower tier journal is one thing, fake journal is another thing altogether. I applied to lower tear schools, but they all had accredition. I would never apply to a school that's not accredited. So I was thinking that low tear journal is analogous to low tear school that's still accredited, while predatory journal is analogous to a school that isn't accreditted. But then again I am not that familiar with how journals operate. Are you saying I misunderstood it?
 
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  • #84
Dr.AbeNikIanEdL said:
Not fake in the sense that it would not actually publish documents.

By fake I meant in a sense that publishing there won't count. In case of low tier journal, it still counts -- just not much -- but still somewhat. In case of fake journal, it doesn't count altogether. Thats what I was referring to.

Dr.AbeNikIanEdL said:
I don't think that high profile scientist are infallible.

I know they aren't infallible. But it is still something that would make me pause and think.
 
  • #85
EternalStudent said:
But it is still something that would make me pause and think.

Well, this is the 85th post here. How much more pausing and thinking do you need?
 
  • #86
Dr.AbeNikIanEdL said:
Well, this is the 85th post here. How much more pausing and thinking do you need?

The problem is that I also emailed three professors that know me (two at the low tier school and one at the top school) and none of them confirmed that the journal was fake. They didn't say that it wasn't -- their response was more along the lines that they didn't know. However, when I was saying that it was, one of them told me that I don't have enough evidence to say this.

I do suspect one thing though. When it comes to the professor at the top school, I talked to him two years ago about my work and he didn't like it. No he didn't discourage me from staying in the field -- but he strongly adviced me to do something more conventional. So maybe the reason he didn't discourage me from publishing it in this journal is simply because he didn't think any other journal would take it.

But that's just my own thinking when I am trying to pull together what he said 2 years ago with what he is saying now. He didn't say "hey your paper is no good so go ahead and send it there" rather he was saying "that journal might be low tier but I don't see why its fake, your paper matches its topics so send it there". But perhaps he meant the former when he said the latter.
 
  • #87
Does anyone know what the point of this thread is anymore?

Zz.
 
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  • #88
Dear OP: you said

"When it comes to the professor at the top school, I talked to him two years ago about my work and he didn't like it. No he didn't discourage me from staying in the field -- but he strongly adviced me to do something more conventional."

I suggest strongly to you that this is valuable advice, which could help you far more than publishing in an arguably scam journal that targets and profits from desperate people like yourself. Have you considered taking it?
 
  • #89
gmax137 said:
The papers I looked at there are also available on arXiv . Is it possible that a journal can copy a paper from arXiv and put it on their site, claiming to "publish" it without the author's knowledge?

The arXiv paper by Gisin states that it has been published in IJQF, so it is likely to have been published in IJQF with Gisin's knowledge.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1401.0419v1
http://www.ijqf.org/archives/1397
 
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  • #90
EternalStudent said:
That is not what my experience has been. So far I have four publications at the following journals:

Journal of Classical and Quantum Gravity
Physics Review D
Journal of Foundations of Physics
Journal of Mathematical Physics

Do "Journal of Classical and Quantum Gravity" and "Journal of Foundations of Physics" exist?
Or did you mean "Classical and Quantum Gravity" and "Foundations of Physics"?
 

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