Asking about the Vcc of some integrated circuits

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence and characteristics of integrated circuits (ICs) that can operate at high voltages, specifically in the kilovolt range. Participants explore the categories of such circuits, their differences from high current ICs, and the feasibility of using high voltage in integrated circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about integrated circuits that can operate at voltages of a few kilovolts, questioning their categories and differences from high current ICs.
  • One participant suggests that most solid-state devices, including ICs, are limited to a few tens of volts, with special designs allowing for a few hundred volts, but not kilovolts.
  • Another participant mentions having seen power ICs rated up to 600 volts, while expressing skepticism about the existence of ICs with breakdown voltages of 1 kilovolt or higher.
  • There is a mention of using relays to handle high voltages, with ICs driving these relays rather than operating directly at high voltages.
  • Concerns are raised about the insulation of IC pins against kilovolt levels, with suggestions of using thin film coatings for insulation.
  • One participant clarifies that the term "Vcc" typically refers to the positive supply voltage for an IC, which would not be in the kilovolt range, while noting that circuits designed to handle high voltages usually have lower Vcc values.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of Hybrid Integrated Circuits, which may encapsulate high voltage components within a single package.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and practicality of integrated circuits operating at kilovolt levels. While some agree that such high voltage operation is impractical for standard ICs, others suggest that specialized designs or hybrid circuits may exist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific capabilities and definitions of high voltage integrated circuits.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining what constitutes an "integrated circuit" and the need for clarity on voltage ratings and applications. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of high voltage and the types of circuits being referenced.

hagopbul
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Hello:
I have to ask some question , did anyone know any integrated circuits that have voltage Vcc of few kilo volts what was the catagoeries of that circuits ?

And do they different from high current integrated circuits ?

Where to read about it ?
Best hope
 
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What would be the purpose of such a device?
 
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Plasma
 
Or even mega volts
 
hagopbul said:
Hello:
I have to ask some question , did anyone know any integrated circuits that have voltage Vcc of few kilo volts what was the catagoeries of that circuits ?

And do they different from high current integrated circuits ?

Where to read about it ?
Best hope

Generally, no. There are limits to the voltages which a solid state device like an integrated circuit can withstand without breaking down. Most integrated circuits are limited to a few 10's of volts. With special design, it is possible to engineer the breakdown voltage to be a few hundred volts, and these types of ICs are commercially available. I am not aware of any ICs with breakdown voltages of 1 kilovolt or higher. For these types of applications, typically we use devices other than semiconductors, such as vacuum tubes.
 
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I remember one time I saw a microcontroller that work on 220 volts it look like I am mistaken
 
hagopbul said:
I remember one time I saw a microcontroller that work on 220 volts it look like I am mistaken
No, I don't think you are mistaken. As I said, a few hundred volts is possible. I have seen power ICs that go up to 600 volts. I've never seen anything above 1 kV.
 
hagopbul said:
I remember one time I saw a microcontroller that work on 220 volts it look like I am mistaken

my guess is it was an X10 type device that commnicates over the power line to control appliances and lights...
they drop line voltage down to something that's useable
https://digilander.libero.it/cvolpato/elettronica/download/00236a.pdf
upload_2019-2-9_20-30-1.png


old jim
 

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hagopbul said:
Hello:
I have to ask some question , did anyone know any integrated circuits that have voltage Vcc of few kilo volts what was the catagoeries of that circuits ?

And do they different from high current integrated circuits ?

Where to read about it ?
Best hope
From few few kilovolts switches, ICs are used to drive relays. Relays capable to handle even megavolt-range lines. Directly using such high voltage for IC is not practical (most silicon circuits are limited to 1200V), therefore HV mains are connected to ICs power supply typically through step-down transformer. Variations of IC isolation (resitive divider, ballast capacitor, floating ICs, opto-couplers, opto-thyristors) do exist depending on application.
 
  • #10
how would you insulate the pins of an IC against kilovolts ? They're only a few thousandths of an inch apart.
 
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  • #11
jim hardy said:
how would you insulate the pins of an IC against kilovolts ? They're only a few thousandths of an inch apart.

For that you may use thin film coating ,but that other subject entirely not related to this question
 
  • #12
hagopbul said:
but that other subject entirely not related to this question
?? This one ?
hagopbul said:
I remember one time I saw a microcontroller that work on 220 volts it look like I am mistaken

well. it was you who brought it up.
 
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  • #13
Forgive me for that
 
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  • #14
hagopbul said:
any integrated circuits that have voltage Vcc of few kilo volts
I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing. Vcc usually defined as the (positive) supply voltage: in this context, it would be what keeps the integrated circuit working. To use such high voltage to power an IC - insane.

If you are asking about integrated circuits which are intended to handle high voltages - that's a different story. But such circuits usually has the actual Vcc below a dozen volts. Sometimes it's produced by an internal regulator, but even so...

Best example is the good old TTL nixie drivers I think. TTL circuits (Vcc around 5V) handling 'high' voltage.

Other example would be some power amplifiers, with separate power input for the last stage, but low voltage Vcc for the actual IC part.

You might be able to find something around hybrid circuits. But that's not really IC, as I take it.
 
  • #15
hagopbul said:
Forgive me for that
Forgive my snap at you.

upload_2019-2-10_15-7-49.jpeg


we all have slips of the tongue from time to time.

old jim
 

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  • #16
hagopbul said:
Hello:
I have to ask some question , did anyone know any integrated circuits that have voltage Vcc of few kilo volts what was the catagoeries of that circuits ?

And do they different from high current integrated circuits ?

Where to read about it ?
Best hope
Is this question asked in order to find a 'chip' that can perform a particular function or is it a general interest question (the sort of question that comes up in typical pub conversations)?
There can be no definitive answer to this question because we would need to define what the OP means by the term "Integrated Circuit". It is possible to encapsulate a circuit into one package and inside the (specialist) package there could be a very high voltage (or current) unit - higher than any included monolithic chip could stand. I think the term for this would be Hybrid Integrated Circuit.
 

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