Atlanta Water Situation Called Dire

[Ivan Seeking]

Metro Atlanta could run out of drinking water in as little as four months according to dire predictions from top water officials on Thursday. [continued]

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=104561

This story has been growing in signficance for some time, and it sounds like things are getting very serious.

 

[Moonbear]

The most severe thing they're doing to people watering their lawns is raising the rates for usage? No wonder they're in such a dire situation! In much less severe droughts than that, I've lived places where they point blank prohibit the use of water for watering lawns or washing cars, and anyone caught doing so faces STEEP fines (and don't think your neighbors wouldn't rat you out if you were the only house on the block with a green lawn and clean cars in front of it).

 

[Evo]

How stupid. Why haven't they started water rationing? Banning watering lawns. People are so wasteful it disgusts me. I see people all of the time turning the faucet on to brush teeth, wash hands, or general cleaning and they have the faucet going full blast while they are walking around doing other things.

When you brush your teeth, wet the toothbrush and turn the water off, then turn it on just to rinse your brush and your mouth. With just some common sense millions of gallons of water could be saved every day.

 

[Moonbear]

When you brush your teeth, wet the toothbrush and turn the water off, then turn it on just to rinse your brush and your mouth. With just some common sense millions of gallons of water could be saved every day.

There are tons of ways to save water. When I was a kid and we went through that drought where they prohibited watering lawns, my parents enforced a number of household changes to save water. One of them was to limit time for showers. They started out setting a 5 min timer per person, then we got better at learning to turn on the shower, get wet, turn off the shower, lather up soap and shampoo, turn the water on to quickly rinse off, then off and get out. It gave us a little more time for lathering up since we didn't have the water running the whole time.

 

[zoobyshoe]

How stupid. Why haven't they started water rationing? Banning watering lawns. People are so wasteful it disgusts me. I see people all of the time turning the faucet on to brush teeth, wash hands, or general cleaning and they have the faucet going full blast while they are walking around doing other things.

When you brush your teeth, wet the toothbrush and turn the water off, then turn it on just to rinse your brush and your mouth. With just some common sense millions of gallons of water could be saved every day.

The problem is really the drought.

"If there is no rain, no brown water coming in, we have four months of storage in the entire system to provide the water supply for one-third of the residents of the state of Georgia," said Atlanta Watershed Commissioner Rob Hunter.

People brushing their teeth with a teaspoon of water might make the supply last another month but why bother when:

It's been an extreme year of drought, and some have said the federal agency that manages the lake has continued with business as usual. The US Army Corps of Engineers releases millions of gallons of water a day from Lake Lanier.

Some of that water stays in Metro Atlanta, but some travels further downstream to Florida and Alabama.

"One of the individuals in Florida said, 'Well, we have a $3 million a year oyster season'," said Jackie Joseph of the Lake Lanier Association. "We have a $5.5 billion economy around this lake."...

...In his letter, Deal questioned why water was still being released from Lake Lanier to help endangered mussels in Florida. The Corps of Engineers said that is required by an endangered species act, and there is not much they can do about that.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The problem is really the drought.

And growth.

I believe that Vegas has banned lawns for Casinos and is generally promoting the use of indigineous plants that require far less water than does grass. The growth around Vegas requires that habbits change drastically. Southern Cal could face the same problem, and in fact N and S Cal have fought over the Feather River and other sources for a century.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Atlanta tops in population growth
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Atlanta has been the fastest growing metropolitan area in the nation since 2000, with a gain of nearly 900,000 residents to 5.1 million. [continued]

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/real_estate/fastest_growing_metro_areas/index.htm

 

[gravenewworld]

If its brown flush it down, if its yellow its mellow.


Also people should only wet themselves in the shower. Turn off the water, lather up, and then rinse off instead of leaving the water on the entire time during the shower.


people are inherently apathetic so people don't care about water usage until there is a sever e shortage.

 

[zoobyshoe]

And growth.

Southern Cal could face the same problem, and in fact N and S Cal have fought over the Feather River and other sources for a century.

You and I should start up a desalinization business on the Salton Sea. Land is very cheap there. We could dissociate the water with radio waves generated by the desert sun, burn it back to pure H2O, then sell it to San Diego.

 

[zoobyshoe]

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/real_estate/fastest_growing_metro_areas/index.htm

Yeah. And growth. That's an astonishing jump in population.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

You and I should start up a desalinization business on the Salton Sea. Land is very cheap there. We could dissociate the water with radio waves generated by the desert sun, burn it back to pure H2O, then sell it to San Diego.

I'm already up to my knees in algae... well, I will be once I start the next batch.

 

[BobG]

The most severe thing they're doing to people watering their lawns is raising the rates for usage? No wonder they're in such a dire situation! In much less severe droughts than that, I've lived places where they point blank prohibit the use of water for watering lawns or washing cars, and anyone caught doing so faces STEEP fines (and don't think your neighbors wouldn't rat you out if you were the only house on the block with a green lawn and clean cars in front of it).

If they stopped watering their lawns, they'd be violating neighborhood covenants, wouldn't they? In some neighborhoods, your neighbors would be more likely to rat you out for being the only house on the block with a brown lawn in the middle of a drought. We run into the same problems in Colorado Springs and that same argument (limits on watering lawns, etc vs raising rates) comes up every time.

 

[Moonbear]

If they stopped watering their lawns, they'd be violating neighborhood covenants, wouldn't they? In some neighborhoods, your neighbors would be more likely to rat you out for being the only house on the block with a brown lawn in the middle of a drought. We run into the same problems in Colorado Springs and that same argument (limits on watering lawns, etc vs raising rates) comes up every time.

I don't think the covenant can be enforceable if it violates city law. And if everyone is in the same situation, they should be more understanding. The whole idea of putting a green lawn ahead of drinking water is idiotic. Besides, it would serve all those people right for letting their HOAs dictate how they maintain their private property rather than just governing how common areas are maintained (i.e., roads, community parks).

 

[zoobyshoe]

San Diego has a weekly free magazine called The Reader and this week the cover story was titled A Perfect Drought (as in: The Perfect Storm).

Apparently the whole area around San Diego is suffering from an extended and severe drought that is well on its way to making it all into a bone dry desert. The climate used to be very good for oak trees which flourished, but now all the oak are dying from lack of water . These oaks have been doing really well around here for at least 300 years, but no longer. The water tables have sunk to depths that are way below what the trees can reach.

None of this is apparent in the city itself which not dependent on local water but gets it from Northern California and the Colorado River.

 

[rewebster]

drought, global warming, bird flu, mrsa, or republicans?


Which one is going to bring the downfall to humanity first?

 

[zoobyshoe]

drought, global warming, bird flu, mrsa, or republicans?


Which one is going to bring the downfall to humanity first?

What's "mrsa"?

 

[rewebster]

http://www.google.com/search?num=20...&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=mrsa+staph&spell=1

----------------

(I guess I could have made an acronym about mrsa with the word 'republicans')

 

[zoobyshoe]

drought, global warming, bird flu, mrsa, or republicans?


Which one is going to bring the downfall to humanity first?

I hadn't heard of that mrsa before.

Personally, I'm now thinking about all those lost-in-the-wilderness ways to distill water with a tin can and garbage bag.

 

[mgb_phys]

We would be willing to sell you some from here in Vancouver - buyer collects!
Not sure we want paying in your dollars though :-)

 

[zoobyshoe]

We would be willing to sell you some from here in Vancouver - buyer collects!
Not sure we want paying in your dollars though :-)

That's mighty neighborly of ya, but if we want your water we'll decide you're building weapons of mass destruction and invade.

 

[mgb_phys]

That's mighty neighborly of ya, but if we want your water we'll decide you're building weapons of mass destruction and invade.

Feel free to 'democratize' Alberta - they have oil

 

[zoobyshoe]

Feel free to 'democratize' Alberta - they have oil

I'll make a note of it and inform the President at the next meeting: "covert weapons of mass destruction programs uncovered in Alberta and Vancouver."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

drought, global warming, bird flu, mrsa, or republicans?


Which one is going to bring the downfall to humanity first?

Despair.

 

[zoobyshoe]

San Diego has a weekly free magazine called The Reader and this week the cover story was titled A Perfect Drought (as in: The Perfect Storm).

Apparently the whole area around San Diego is suffering from an extended and severe drought that is well on its way to making it all into a bone dry desert. The climate used to be very good for oak trees which flourished, but now all the oak are dying from lack of water . These oaks have been doing really well around here for at least 300 years, but no longer. The water tables have sunk to depths that are way below what the trees can reach.

None of this is apparent in the city itself which not dependent on local water but gets it from Northern California and the Colorado River.

This drought has now spawned a huge wildfire:

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gP9q6y-GSLbVY-8937Jc-woXk5qg

The eastern sky outside is visibly smudged and dirty looking to the east where the fires are, while the western sky over the ocean is still normally clear and blue. These fires have been going on a couple days now, at least, but today is the first I can smell smoke everywhere.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...The severe drought tightening like a vise across the Southeast has threatened the water supply of cities large and small, sending politicians scrambling for solutions. But Orme, about 40 miles west of Chattanooga and 150 miles northwest of Atlanta, is a town where the worst-case scenario has already come to pass: The water has run out.

...Three days a week, the volunteer fire chief hops in a 1961 fire truck at 5:30 a.m. — before the school bus blocks the narrow road — and drives a few miles to an Alabama fire hydrant. He meets with another truck from nearby New Hope, Ala. The two drivers make about a dozen runs back and forth, hauling about 20,000 gallons of water from the hydrant to Orme's tank. [continued]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21582319/?gt1=10547

 

[zoobyshoe]

Atlanta won't be able to truck water in.

They're now negotiating to stop letting half the water go downstream for the wildlife:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21584661/

If the drinking water runs out for such a large city I can't see anything happening but that the people will have to relocate and it will become a ghost city. I don't think anything like that's ever happened in the US.

 

[Evo]

I'm sorry, can you say assinine? The only water sanctions I can find are some outdoor watering bans recently put into place, but with exceptions for commercial use.

Poor government, bad decisions, more bad government, more bad decisions...

But even if an agreement is reached soon, the mayor said her city, which has doubled in population since 1980, needs to do a better job of conserving water.

Gee, you think?

Franklin also admitted that the Atlanta area did little to add to storage facilities during years of recent explosive growth, but says the city has now purchased a stone quarry to be developed into a new reservoir.

Atlanta is spending $4 billion to fix the city's water infrastructure. According to Franklin, 14 percent of the city's pipes, many of which date back to the 1890s, leak. Though the mayor says the percentage of leaky pipes has dropped each of the last six years.

But the remaining repairs will take four to five years and won't address the current crisis. Atlanta may soon have to resort to drastic action like some other Southeastern towns have already taken.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/10/18/pip.atlantadrought/index.html

 

[zoobyshoe]

Poor government, bad decisions, more bad government, more bad decisions...

Yeah, everyone complains about the weather but no one ever does anything about it!

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, everyone complains about the weather but no one ever does anything about it!

Sure, the weather is a big part of the problem, but they've seen this coming for a long time now and have only started putting in the most minimal of conservation restrictions this past month or so. The restrictions they have in place now are the ones that should have been in place back when those first reports came out...when, last year?...of the lake levels dropping so low that the docks were all on dry land. That would have bought more time before reaching crisis levels. Now that they're at crisis levels, restricting watering of lawns and having lots of exceptions for commercial businesses (i.e., if you have a landscaper water your lawn, it seems it's okay, since that's commercial) is too little too late. They should be limited to essential use only now...just enough for drinking/cooking, basic hygiene needs (short showers, dishwashing, brushing teeth), and firefighting. No filling pools, no watering lawns, no washing cars, no running public fountains unless it's entirely recycled water, no usage above your daily household limit, no exceptions.

 

[wildman]

News Flash:

Town of Marana Arizona sues town of Tucson because its not getting its fair share of the effluent from the regional sewage treatment plant!
Needless to say in neither of those towns do you see green lawns.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Sure, the weather is a big part of the problem, but they've seen this coming for a long time now and have only started putting in the most minimal of conservation restrictions this past month or so. The restrictions they have in place now are the ones that should have been in place back when those first reports came out...when, last year?...of the lake levels dropping so low that the docks were all on dry land. That would have bought more time before reaching crisis levels. Now that they're at crisis levels, restricting watering of lawns and having lots of exceptions for commercial businesses (i.e., if you have a landscaper water your lawn, it seems it's okay, since that's commercial) is too little too late. They should be limited to essential use only now...just enough for drinking/cooking, basic hygiene needs (short showers, dishwashing, brushing teeth), and firefighting. No filling pools, no watering lawns, no washing cars, no running public fountains unless it's entirely recycled water, no usage above your daily household limit, no exceptions.

They can't make do with the current amount of rainfall. No amount of conservation now or a year ago would prevent them from going dry eventually so long as they don't get the rain they need.

 

[Moonbear]

They can't make do with the current amount of rainfall. No amount of conservation now or a year ago would prevent them from going dry eventually so long as they don't get the rain they need.

No, but the longer it takes to run out, the more time there is to allow rainfall to come along and for each small rainfall to last that much longer. I think that's their problem is they seem to have that same attitude of, "Well, we're going to run out eventually, so why do anything?" But, with no conservation, you run out in 6 months, while with strict conservation, maybe it's 1-2 years...or you can cut back water usage so that minimal rainfall keeps up with it and would last 5 years. That buys time to find other solutions, or for the drought to end naturally, and means that when it does start raining again, the reservoirs have a chance to fill up.

It also makes no sense to continue to allow more construction to increase the population in a city that can't handle the population it already has.

Heck, that's an issue where I live now, and we're not even in a drought situation, but more of an issue of capacity of our water and sewage treatment facilities and existing water mains. We have tons of new housing going up completely unchecked (the joy of no zoning laws), and it's only AFTER the housing gets built that they're realizing there's insufficient capacity of existing lines to tap into city water and sewer. It's a shortcoming of the local government here, and clearly a shortcoming of the local government in Atlanta. Anywhere else, a developer wouldn't be able to build until AFTER they covered the expenses of increasing the capacity of sewer and water lines supplying their development, or would not be allowed to build at all if the treatment facilities couldn't handle added capacity unless they had an alternative plan of how water and sewer needs would be met (including fees for development that would pay for expansion of those facilities). Of course, a competent government would also recognize the rate of growth of the population and predict 5 or 10 years in advance that they're going to need to expand the infrastructure and start budgeting and planning for it before they reach maximum capacity.

 

[zoobyshoe]

No, but the longer it takes to run out, the more time there is to allow rainfall to come along and for each small rainfall to last that much longer. I think that's their problem is they seem to have that same attitude of, "Well, we're going to run out eventually, so why do anything?" But, with no conservation, you run out in 6 months, while with strict conservation, maybe it's 1-2 years...or you can cut back water usage so that minimal rainfall keeps up with it and would last 5 years. That buys time to find other solutions, or for the drought to end naturally, and means that when it does start raining again, the reservoirs have a chance to fill up.

I don't think anyone making decisions thinks it's just a drought. The fact it's gotten this bad, both there and here in Southern California, is saying "Climate Shift."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If the drinking water runs out for such a large city I can't see anything happening but that the people will have to relocate and it will become a ghost city. I don't think anything like that's ever happened in the US.

In addition to the effects of the drought, I wonder if anyone has done the math and compared the water supply under normal conditions, to the current and anticipated future demand - perhaps the demand would now exceed the supply under normal conditions.

 

[zoobyshoe]

In addition to the effects of the drought, I wonder if anyone has done the math and compared the water supply under normal conditions, to the current and anticipated future demand - perhaps the demand would now exceed the supply under normal conditions.

Yes, it could be the growth alone would have created a problem.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is a good report from PBS [The News Hour] about the fight for water in the West.

RAY SUAREZ: The Great Basin of Nevada is an arid region of mountain ranges, meadows, and bubbling streams. What little precipitation falls here quickly evaporates or becomes ground water. None of it escapes to the ocean.

It's in these peaceful valleys that a fierce battle has begun over water and electricity, growth and sustainability... For decades, Cecil Garland and Dean Baker have ranched the land here about five hours north of Las Vegas. In this desert climate, they need to irrigate 70 days a year to grow alfalfa for their cattle. But now the city of Las Vegas wants to take some of that water, and the ranchers say that could mean the end of their way of life...

CECIL GARLAND: Perhaps the fundamental question is what we're going to do with our water, crops or craps? [continued]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/environment/july-dec07/vegas_11-14.html
[text and real audio]

 

[Ivan Seeking]

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/11/16/southern.drought.ap/art.drought.lanier.ap.jpg

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Federal biologists signed off on a plan Friday to reduce the flow of water from Lake Lanier, the main water source for Atlanta and the focal point of a three-state water fight as the Southeast contends with a historic drought. [continued]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/16/southern.drought.ap/index.html

 

[Moonbear]

Did you hear that the mayor of Atlanta is so desperate, he requested a public prayer for water? I need to find a link, but have seen the story cited elsewhere. I kind of thought if they're that desperate they ought to have opted for a rain dance.

If they do get rain after this long of a drought, I hope for their sake it starts out as a light sprinkle or drizzle. If they get any sort of downpour, there'll be all sorts of flooding before the dried ground can start to absorb some of it.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I kind of thought if they're that desperate they ought to have opted for a rain dance.

You heathen.

 

[zoobyshoe]

You heathen.

Well the land was cracking and the river was dry.
All the crops were dying when they ought to be high.
So to save his farm from the bankers draft,
The farmer took out a book on some old witchcraft.
He made a spell and a potion on a midsummers night.
He killed a brindled calf in the pale moonlight.
He prayed to the sky but he prayed in vain:
Heavy cloud but
No rain.

-Sting

 

[theCandyman]

Did you hear that the mayor of Atlanta is so desperate, he requested a public prayer for water? I need to find a link, but have seen the story cited elsewhere. I kind of thought if they're that desperate they ought to have opted for a rain dance.

Well, it worked!

The dining halls here actually statred using diposable plates and plasticware to save water on washing dishes. Fountains around the city have stopped flowing, too. I can't say anything about watering lawns as I don't see that many very often.

 

[edward]

The Northern suburbs of Atlanta draw their water directly from lake Lanier. The water is no so low it has become a dead zone. There is no oxygen in the water and it is full of decaying plant and animal matter.

The Army Corps of Engineers predicts there is at least 120 days of water left, but that includes the water in the dead pool.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jHzTY3PWCbYfqU152QYeQ04K5uqwD8SV18V00

The City of Atlanta uses water from the Chattahoochee river that leaves Lake lanier. The river water is more aerated by the flow of the river.

All in all this is a good example of poor water management and lack of preparation.
Priority was give to power production in Florida and Alabama. The Federal wildlife service insisted that they needed more water flow to insure the survival of certain mussels.

It didn't help that while the water level was dropping in the lake, builders just kept on building more subdivisions.

We have a potential crisis here in the southwest with the Colorado river. Lake Powell is down to 30% capacity. Lake Meade is at 50% and dropping. Despite this the fountains keep flowing in Las Vegas, and builders keep building houses and golf courses in the desert.

Ironically Arizona and possibly federal law requires that new developments prove that they have an assured 100 year water supply. This has become a joke here recently, the 100 year assured water supply status is granted to new subdivisions and approved, yet our water supply beyond the year 2035 is based on total speculation.

The recent real estate bust may turn out to be a blessing for cities like Tucson.

 

[zoobyshoe]

We have a potential crisis here in the southwest with the Colorado river. Lake Powell is down to 30% capacity. Lake Meade is at 50% and dropping.

We here in San Diego get part of our water from the Colorado river so this is terrible news.

 

[turbo]

Have you seen the movie "Chinatown"?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Have you seen the movie "Chinatown"?

Many times.

 

[edward]

Here is an interesting satellite photograph of lake Meade. The picture that comes up is the lake in 2000. Run your cursor over the photo and it shows lake Meade in 2003.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/LakeMead/

The level of the lake has dropped considerably since 2003.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here is an interesting satellite photograph of lake Meade. The picture that comes up is the lake in 2000. Run your cursor over the photo and it shows lake Meade in 2003.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/LakeMead/

The level of the lake has dropped considerably since 2003.

I wonder why they don't have a 2000 to 2007 comparison. Regardless, it looks very bad.

 

[edward]

I wonder why they don't have a 2000 to 2007 comparison. Regardless, it looks very bad.

I have been looking for some updated photos. Meade is much lower now at 50% capacity than in the 03 photo. The last time it was this low was in 1965. It wasn't a problem then because much less water was being used at that time.