Average tension force acting on a simple pendulum

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the average tension force acting on a simple pendulum. Participants explore the relationship between tension, gravitational force, and angular displacement, while questioning the assumptions made in the analysis of the pendulum's motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the maximum tension force being equal to mg and question the validity of this assumption. They explore the implications of the angle θ on tension and acceleration, particularly at the bottom of the pendulum's arc. Some participants attempt to derive expressions for tension using integrals and trigonometric identities, while others express confusion about the relationship between angular velocity and angular displacement.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights and corrections to each other's reasoning. There is a recognition of the need to clarify the signs in the equations governing the forces acting on the pendulum. Multiple interpretations of the tension force and its average value are being explored, indicating a productive exchange of ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the analysis involves approximations for small angles and the need to consider centripetal acceleration. There is also mention of homework constraints that may limit the methods available for solving the problem.

  • #31
Pushoam said:
in what way is it wrong?
Consider e.g. average fuel consumption. That should be an average wrt distance. If you were to average over time instead, consider a journey at varying speed. While going slowly, more time is spent over each equal distance, so that would make those fuel measurements count more.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
haruspex said:
Consider e.g. average fuel consumption. That should be an average wrt distance. If you were to average over time instead, consider a journey at varying speed. While going slowly, more time is spent over each equal distance, so that would make those fuel measurements count more.
Yes, this means that if I go slowly, I will spend more fuel, isn't it so?
Does this mean that the spent fuel is independent of speed?
If I consider conservation of energy, the more speed means more kinetic energy, so more fuel is needed as fuel is the energy which gets converted into the kinetic energy for a car to reach greater speed. So, this means that the rate of fuel spent per unit time that is input power is more if the car is accelerating.

I think you suggested to consider an unaccelerated moving car.

If a car is already moving at constant speed v, then the fuel is needed to counter the friction force, not to keep the car moving at speed v. And the friction force is independent of speed. The fuel is equal to the |friction force| *distance, which is independent of v.

So, the amount of consumed fuel depends upon the traveled distance, not time or speed.
So, the average of consumed fuel should be calculated wrt to distance.

Now, I have to answer, why should ##<\theta^2> ## be calculated wrt time not ## \theta##?
 
Last edited:
  • #33
Pushoam said:
Now, I have to answer, why should <θ2> be calculated wrt time not θ?
The first thought which I am getting is : θ2 depends on θ and θ depends on time t explicitly. So, <θ2> should remain same. But, I know that it is not so as I found them different after calculation. So, I leave this expectation.
Now, why should <θ2> be calculated wrt time not θ?
I am not getting how the fuel example helps to know the answer to the above question.
Is this because while calculating <T>, I have calculated average of other terms wrt time t, not θ?

Another thought:
The question asks to calculate <T> wrt time t over one time - period, not θ. So, <θ2> should be calculated wrt time t,not θ.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
1K