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Ban gas guzzlers

  1. Feb 4, 2008 #1

    wolram

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    http://www.newsdaily.com/Science/UPI-1-20080204-09283900-bc-britain-emissions.xml [Broken]

    Sir Mark Moody-Stuart, who was chairman of Royal Dutch Shell from 1998 to 2001, says taxing gas guzzlers has failed to get people to abandon large vehicles, The Daily Telegraph reported Monday.

    "When we eliminated coal fires in London we didn't say to people in Chelsea you can pay a bit more and toast your crumpets in front of an open fire," Sir Mark said.

    His comments came on the day new low emission standards went into effect in London.

    A network of cameras that record license plates will be used to enforce the new targets and fines of $400 a day will be issued to operators of lorries, buses and coaches that fail to meet them.

    London Mayor Ken Livingstone says the goal is to reduce emissions by 16 percent in areas of the capital where air quality does not meet current European Union standards.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
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  3. Feb 4, 2008 #2

    wolram

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    What will Queeney babe and the family be driven around in, and will two Jags become two Minis.
     
  4. Feb 4, 2008 #3

    Evo

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    Cameras to check emissions? You mean they are blowing smoke?
     
  5. Feb 4, 2008 #4

    Kurdt

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    The cameras can recognise license plates which are all on the DVLA database telling you who owns the car, where they live and what make and model the car (or other vehicle) is. All car models have stats on how much they emit etc.
     
  6. Feb 4, 2008 #5

    Evo

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    But how do they know if the individual vehicle is emitting too much?
     
  7. Feb 4, 2008 #6

    Kurdt

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    They don't and thats why its terribly unfair. They're forcing people to switch the type of car they drive.
     
  8. Feb 4, 2008 #7
    :uhh: A lot of currency exchange required, it seems for the Londoners, changing ££'s to those 400$

    But regardless of effects of gas emission, the oil supply is limited and when it's gone, it's gone. No need to use up more than your fair share and there are big cars a lot less thirsty than others, like the new generation TDi diesels of the hybrids.
     
  9. Feb 4, 2008 #8

    Evo

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    That's crazy. For driving a car that is meeting the emission standards when it was made they are going to fine people $400 a day? I can see if the car is in disrepair and is emitting more than it should...
     
  10. Feb 4, 2008 #9

    wolram

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    I guess it is a bit stupid to own a 4*4 or a stretch limo to drive around London but a lot of cars are going to struggle to get 35mpg.
     
  11. Feb 4, 2008 #10

    Moonbear

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    Are they going to buy the people driving the "outlawed" cars new ones? Afterall, if nobody can drive it, they won't be able to sell it to anyone to afford a new one on their own. I can see them not allowing any new sales or production, and all need to be maintained to keep within certain limits, but how can people afford to suddenly replace a car that was legal when they bought it?
     
  12. Feb 4, 2008 #11

    BobG

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    The article isn't entirely clear, but they're not banning the gas guzzling, high emission vehicles altogether. They're banning them from being driven in parts of London.

    They probably wouldn't need cameras to know who owned gas guzzling, high emmission vehicles if owners have to register their vehicles. They could just check the registration records and come out and impound the offending vehicles.
     
  13. Feb 4, 2008 #12

    Kurdt

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    Its only in a very limited area of London. If you want to drive in that zone in any vehicle that has emissions over a certain level then you have to pay. Hence the cameras. Thats how I saw it on the news earlier anyway.

    Its two stories together really since that Shell businessman later came out and just said ban them altogether.
     
  14. Feb 4, 2008 #13

    brewnog

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    Good bloody idea, that's what I say.

    Besides, it's only for commercial vehicles anyway. Cars and motorbikes are exempt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  15. Feb 4, 2008 #14

    Evo

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    Oh, well that's different.
     
  16. Feb 4, 2008 #15

    Astronuc

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    That technology is coming to the US. There's a European company marketing is pattern recognition system which identifies license plates.
     
  17. Feb 4, 2008 #16

    Kurdt

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    It seems to have been quite successful in reducing car crimes and other related crimes. The technology is small enough to be put into traffic patrol cars and can easily recognise vehicles that don't have any tax or have warrants on them where previously they would have gotten away with it.
     
  18. Feb 4, 2008 #17

    Evo

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    This is done around the country now to catch speeders, their license plate is photographed and the person is mailed a ticket.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  19. Feb 4, 2008 #18

    chroot

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    It's also used every day on toll bridges around here. If you've forgotten to bring your electronic toll tag (which is more reliable) they'll just read your license plate instead.

    - Warren
     
  20. Feb 4, 2008 #19

    wolram

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    The government will soon know every ones movements every minut of the day,
    so long as they do not loose the information in the post.
     
  21. Feb 4, 2008 #20

    chroot

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    Far from being a symbol of independence, the automobile is finally becoming highly controlled and highly regulated. I see this as a good thing, personally. If you don't want to pay registration fees and have your speed monitored and be subject to parking fines, just ride a bike or walk instead.

    - Warren
     
  22. Feb 4, 2008 #21
    It is so very easy to say "just ban it" and look at the consumer as the criminal and the scapegoat. How about a million dollar a day fine for G.M. or Ford or Toyota untill all their cars meet an international standard? Personally I drive a 4x4 truck. I need it for my line of work. I have no choice. At all. The Irony is...I do environmental remediation. Dinging me for cleaning up the environment does not sound quite fair. We are just the easiest target. Not the best target imho. Just the easiest. My work area goes from Windsor Ontario to Cornwall Ontario, From the great lakes to Thunderbay. This is an area of 1000 kms x2000 kms roughly. I cannot "ride a bike" and there are millions of people just like me. The blanket statement to ban is not a well thought out position. Just a kneejerk reaction to government and industrie policys we can not controll. Lobby groups reign. We loose.
     
  23. Feb 4, 2008 #22

    chroot

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    We're not talking about driving your truck all over Canada, we're talking about driving it in urban core of London. I hope understand the difference.

    There may be millions of people like you who require an automobile for their livehihood, but there are billions more who honestly do not.

    I'm sure any such law would have provisions for people who need to use such vehicles for business activity. I don't think anyone will suggest that delivery vehicles no longer service this part of the city, for example. These laws are just designed to motivate the vast majority of people, who do not need to drive a personal automobile into downtown London, to find some alternative.

    - Warren
     
  24. Feb 4, 2008 #23

    wolram

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    I agree with using bikes for local travel, by far the worst poluters are those that comute to London, it is crazy using a car to carry one person 180 ish miles round trip 5 days a week, the problem is the cost of living in London and people want the quiet of the country side, so why not go the whole hog make London and other cities places where people want to live.
     
  25. Feb 4, 2008 #24

    ShawnD

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    That shouldn't be too hard. My North American model Honda Civic gets 37mpg and it's quite a bit bigger than a car you typically see in the UK. What does a Mini get, like 50 in the city? Those things are so damn small that anything less would be unacceptable.

    Oh and lol @ taxing cars that are already on the road. Thanks government! Now people need to scrap their cars (since nobody will buy them), and I'll bet the government won't help them pay for their replacement. What happens then? You just quit your job? Sell your old house and buy a new one? Great policies.
     
  26. Feb 4, 2008 #25

    chroot

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    You don't have to scrap the car -- you just cannot drive it into London anymore. There are many other, better ways to get into London anyway.

    - Warren
     
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