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Barack Wins Wyoming

  1. Mar 8, 2008 #1
    Oh..wait...what's that? No one cares? Okay..I'll shut up.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 8, 2008 #2

    turbo

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    Some of us care. Clinton wants to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates, which is more than a bit sleazy. She "won" Michigan because she didn't withdraw her name from the primary like Edwards and Obama did. In addition, she campaigned in Florida for the primary, though she claims that it was not really campaigning because the events that she appeared at were not open to the public. We don't need a President that lies and parses things so finely that she can justify them on very thin ethical/legal grounds. I once had an employer who told me to lie to a potential client because my knowledge of the death of her husband might tip her to the identity of the person who had told me of her husband's death. He told me "Say that you heard about this from a number of people." I refused to do so, and he said "It's not really lying because one is a number." What a sleaze! Most of my conflicts with that creep were based on my refusals to lie, dissemble, and tell half-truths when he thought it was expedient.
     
  4. Mar 8, 2008 #3
    Now thats what I call logic.

    As for Clinton, we all knew she was scum. This country has had two Bush's and look how that turned out. Do you really think the people want another Clinton? Of course not.
     
  5. Mar 9, 2008 #4
    Option 1 - Barack wins
    Option 2 - McCain wins
    Option 3 - Not an option
     
  6. Mar 9, 2008 #5
    Option 4 - Ron Paul actually gets some press time and somehow wins
     
  7. Mar 9, 2008 #6

    russ_watters

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  8. Mar 9, 2008 #7
  9. Mar 9, 2008 #8
    Yeah, I always find it weird when people act like they're being scrupulous to avoid lying - but being completely deceptive is just fine, as long as you aren't technically lying! Just give up and admit you don't have any moral objection to deceiving others, sheesh.
     
  10. Mar 9, 2008 #9

    lisab

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    Many people didn't show up to the Florida primary because they were told it didn't count. Those delegates CAN'T be seated - no way!
     
  11. Mar 9, 2008 #10

    russ_watters

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    It's not just that people didn't show up - most of the candidates were not on the ballot.

    How stupid are the Florida and Michigan legislators?
     
  12. Mar 9, 2008 #11

    lisab

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    I know...that's where the blame lies, ultimately.

    Florida and Michigan played chicken with the DNC and lost.
     
  13. Mar 9, 2008 #12

    turbo

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    Another wrinkle in Florida - who showed up? Clinton apparently figured that retirees showed up (and there are a lot of retired women in Florida) because she has said that she will not agree to Florida holding a caucus, which is the least-expensive option for a re-do. She knows that if Florida holds caucuses, Obama gets a big advantage on her. She loftily proclaims that Florida's voters deserve to be heard, while digging her heels in and insisting that the delegates that she "won" be seated. Sleazy. She will gladly tear apart the party to pursue her blind ambition, including offering Obama a VP slot in HER administration - a sign of just how out-of-touch she is. She is running behind in delegates and she offers him the VP slot?? What a creep!
     
  14. Mar 9, 2008 #13

    G01

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    I honestly can't see Howard Dean letting those primaries go as is. That is just too ridiculous. With Obama not even on the ticket in MI and Hilary not campaigning in Fl (assuming your definition of "not" is "definitely"), it is a completely unfair situation for Obama.

    If they redo them, fine. I'll agree to that. But if they seat the delegates as is all it shows is that Hilary is willing to go to all ends to accomplish her goals, whether the American people agree with her or not. That is not a quality we want in a president. I hope the last 8 years have convinced America of this.
     
  15. Mar 9, 2008 #14

    turbo

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    Exactly! Whatever respect I once held for her (very little after she voted to let Bush take us to war) is entirely gone. She feels entitled to the Presidency, and acts as if we owe it to her. She has done nothing to deserve such blind allegiance, and she must be one of the most egotistical people in the country to go out every day spreading her "message" in this manner. We used to do a lot of spreading on the farm when I was a kid, BTW. She has the highest negatives amongst voters in this country, and if her campaign manages to throw enough dirt on Obama to persuade the superdelegates to back her, Independents, moderate Republicans, and conservative Democrats will break for McCain. He wants to slog it out in Iraq indefinitely until we "win" (he hasn't defined that any more than the idiot-in-chief has) and he wants to make Bush's tax cuts for millionaires permanent. This country is sliding into recession thanks to Bush's war, the wink-wink support of the oil companies' greed (like continuing to increase the size of the strategic oil reserve when oil prices spiked) and laissez-faire fiscal policies. It is no coincidence that the Savings and Loan fiasco and the Sub-Prime mortgage disaster happened during Republican administrations.
     
  16. Mar 9, 2008 #15

    Vanadium 50

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    I don't think that's evidence for being out of touch. I think she knows that there are people who would vote for a Clinton-Obama ticket that wouldn't vote for a Clinton-somebody else ticket. But there's nobody who would vote for an Obama-Clinton ticket that wouldn't vote for an Obama-somebody else ticket.

    Now that she has essentially told the world that McCain will be a better president than Obama ("He's never been president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech made in 2002.") I think it's clear what her strategy is - damage Obama sufficiently so he cannot win the general election, and then appeal to the superdelegates to back her as their only hope. That may be the most effective option she has available.

    I have heard that her people were trying to get out the vote for the GOP candidate in the Illinois 14th special election, so that there wouldn't be an additional Obama superdelegate. I don't know if this is true, and if it is true, I don't know that this wasn't just some overzealous rogue staffer. But I think it illustrates the problem with following the strategy - people are willing to ascribe motives like "power over party" (and "power over good governance") to her.
     
  17. Mar 9, 2008 #16

    russ_watters

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    The thing is, the DNC lost too! Florida and Michigan screwed up the whole process. It is entirely possible that even with the superdelegates, there won't be enough total delegates available for either to get the majority they need to win the nomination. They may need to rewrite the rules at the convention to make it work.
     
  18. Mar 9, 2008 #17

    russ_watters

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    My dad pointed out to me tonight that that may have been an attempt to woo black women who otherwise might have voted for Obama. Could be, but yeah, it does come off as slimy. That's why she and Bill make such a great couple.
     
  19. Mar 10, 2008 #18
    Good point, russ. She has tried other tactics for catering to specific voter segments before.

    I think the whole problem with the offer is that it's obvious she would never stoop to being his vice-president - if she'd made that offer as well it would have made sense for him to respond more acceptingly of both Democratic platforms.

    I wouldn't say she has blind ambition but to me she just more and more comes to represent arrogance and the establishment. Whereas Obama puts on a sincere or extremely-sincere-looking show of humility and appeal to the anti-establishment.

    Another nifty political note in the news - this guy Bill Foster who took Dennis Hastert's seat in Illinois is one of our boys, a scientist! Worked at Fermi Labs for 22 years, the article said. (That doesn't conclusively mean he was a scientist, he could've been a mop jockey or something, but it's nice to think.)
     
  20. Mar 10, 2008 #19

    Art

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    It would be interesting to see how it would pan out if Clinton got the nomination through superdelegates and Obama decided to run anyway as an independent. He would lose some democratic votes but splitting from the democratic party may give him broad appeal to republican voters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  21. Mar 10, 2008 #20
    Interesting indeed. Since I don't mind McCain as much as the other Republican candidates I wouldn't mind watching something like that, it would be amusing. Though of course, for Clinton to win the nomination only through superdelegates (especially when she herself and Bill are superdelegates - though Obama is too) would seem a bit out of sorts for a party that has been crowing about stolen elections for the last eight years.
     
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