Beauty of old electrical and measuring things, etc.

[dlgoff]

Etsy has a lot of Nixie tube counter stuff:
https://www.etsy.com/market/nixie_tube_counter

 

[Vanadium 50]

Was it the Wang calculator/computer that had a Nixie tube readout?

Lots did, back in the day. VFDs too.

 

[dlgoff]

VFDs too

Yes. I remember seeing Nixies on the ones at a Lab I worked in that were controlling large air handlers.

 

[DennisN]

I read the Nixie tube page on Wikipedia and found a link to a device I've never heard about: Nimo tube.

Haha, got to love the outrageousness of that invention!

"Let's build a digit display out of ten electron guns powered by 1750 volts."
"Yeah, why not?"

 

[dlgoff]

Here's an old non-electrical beauty of mine that I had as a kid. It's either 71 or 72 years old. It's missing the trigger/hammer spring and the pistol grips though:

 

[berkeman]

Was it a cap gun? That's amazing that you still have it.

 

[dlgoff]

Was it a cap gun? That's amazing that you still have it.

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_gun

A cap gun, cap pistol, or cap rifle is a toy gun that creates a loud sound simulating a gunshot and smoke when a small percussion cap is ignited. Cap guns were originally made of cast iron, but after World War II were made of zinc alloy, and most newer models are made of plastic. Cap guns get their name from the small discs of shock-sensitive explosive compounds (roughly 1.4 to 1.6 millimetres (0.055 to 0.063 in) in diameter) that provide the noise and smoke, ...

edit: mine is made of cast iron.

 

[Bystander]

either 71 or 72 years old.

I doubt that; "pot metal" doesn't rust, and there were no toys from my youth that were NOT manufactured from "same." That has to be turn of (last) century.

 

[dlgoff]

I doubt that; "pot metal" doesn't rust,

It's made of iron which does rust.

edit: you can see the magnets on it here:

From the same site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_gun

Here are the type of caps that I used back then:

 

[berkeman]

I doubt that; "pot metal" doesn't rust, and there were no toys from my youth that were NOT manufactured from "same."

Most of my cap guns were made of plastic or pot metal, and didn't last more than a year or two. I did have a Davey Crockett flintlock rifle cap gun that lasted for many years though. I don't know if the action was made out of cast iron, but it was definitely of better quality than most of my pot metal toys. The "ram rod" was definitely made out of low-grade iron/steel, though. It fired these light cork balls that you rammed down the barrel, just like Davey did!

 

[Averagesupernova]

Most of my cap guns were made of plastic or pot metal, and didn't last more than a year or two.

None of mine lasted more than a few weeks and I always tried to take care of my stuff because I didn't get that much stuff. Must be because toys were so much better built back in the dark ages. Lol

 

[Borg]

I was pretty hard on my toys sometimes. My toy soldiers died in napalm attacks.

 

[DaveE]

I stumbled on this an image of this BAFCO frequency response analyzer, circa 1980 or so and had a flashback to my first real EE job. This was state of the art then for a feedback controls lab, a sweeping narrow band vector analyzer up to 100KHz. I have fond memories of spending a few years with this guy designing switching power supplies.

Nary a uP in it, or the entire lab, in 1982 when I met this guy. The outputs were analog voltages we sent to an HP x-y plotter sitting on top of it. I would watch the plot proceed over a minute or two wondering 'when will the phase start dropping', adjusting signal levels and filters, etc. I kept my own set of plotter pens in my desk since other EEs would wear them out. I remember coming in late on a Sunday night to test a loudspeaker I had from home, with ear plugs. First I searched the floor to make sure I was alone since it was really, really, obnoxious. I still love the excellent user interface with buttons and knobs, right on par with an old Tek 465, HP 3585, and such. Now you don't push buttons so much as type on a laptop to gather your data. I was really surprised to see you can still buy it (I think), although I can't imagine who would.

I guess old is relative though, there was no neon or vacuums involved. It's odd how emotionally attached we can become to an old box of wires and transistors.

 

[berkeman]

I kept my own set of plotter pens in my desk since other EEs would wear them out.

Yep!

I still love the excellent user interface with buttons and knobs, right on par with an old Tek 465, HP 3585, and such.

Yeah, I usually didn't mind the changes to the user interface as we went through the generations of instruments; usually it was just a little different with new capabilities. But the latest generation of mixed signal oscilloscopes that we bought have a super-non-intuitive user interface with a main overloaded concentric ring control that still baffle me when I use them (Tek 4034 MSOs, the control is in the upper right of the image below). I can usually get close to what I want, but there are usually other things/garbage still on the display that I can't figure out how to get rid of. Sort of like the GUI interface changes in the latest Windows versions (that I turn off whenever I can)...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://www.testunlimited.com/productDetail.aspx?product_id=252&psig=AOvVaw1vhBKqtSzNS080l2hRf6es&ust=1675899368624000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCOjhpubJhP0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAL

 

[DaveE]

I usually didn't mind the changes to the user interface as we went through the generations of instruments; usually it was just a little different with new capabilities.

Yes. It was inevitable, and cost and feature wise essential. From the instrument designers perspective there is really no other way. Can you imagine a modern spectrum analyzer without menus, where every knob has a dedicated function? They'd look like an old 747 cockpit. It just doesn't work now that instruments are so much more flexible. Those knobs and buttons are a big labor cost and come with reliability problems too. There were lots of things that FRA just wouldn't do. It's a fair tradeoff IMO.

 

[DaveE]

I was really surprised to see you can still buy it

I remember a pretty unpopular laser we (tried) to sell. After it had been out for a while and sales went to zero we just kept 1 in stock and mothballed manufacturing. Manufacturing and service became the engineer who designed it, which he hardly ever had to actually do. If there was a real problem, we'd probably just give them the better model. No one bought it, but it literally took years for the company to remove it from our "catalog".

I bet even if they do sell them that they don't actually make new ones. How would they get those knobs and such 45 years later?

 

[berkeman]

Yes. It was inevitable, and cost and feature wise essential. From the instrument designers perspective there is really no other way. Can you imagine a modern spectrum analyzer without menus, where every knob has a dedicated function? They'd look like an old 747 cockpit. It just doesn't work now that instruments are so much more flexible. Those knobs and buttons are a big labor cost and come with reliability problems too. There were lots of things that FRA just wouldn't do. It's a fair tradeoff IMO.

All fair points. But have you ever tried to use a 4034? Seriously, I can set every knob and switch on a curve tracer before turning on the trace (which is a good interview question for EEs, IMO), but that 4034 overloaded concentric ring control thing is a royal PITA, IMO. I guess I need to watch the Tek instruction videos or something. Never had to do that before...

 

[DaveE]

All fair points. But have you ever tried to use a 4034? Seriously, I can set every knob and switch on a curve tracer before turning on the trace (which is a good interview question for EEs, IMO), but that 4034 overloaded concentric ring control thing is a royal PITA, IMO. I guess I need to watch the Tek instruction videos or something. Never had to do that before...

um... nope. But there are good and bad UIs with any technology. I'm convinced that in my day the fact (yes, FACT) that everyone wanted Tek Scopes but HP Spectrum Analyzers was because of the UIs in each. It can be easily overlooked in instrument companies that are focused on the spec sheet.

 

[Rive]

But the latest generation of mixed signal oscilloscopes that we bought have a super-non-intuitive user interface with a main overloaded concentric ring control that still baffle me when I use them

I've been also completely baffled by some new scope recently, but then overcome the hurdle.
The key was to stick a mouse in the back of the thing and use the screen instead
Later on I've even added a keyboard to the mix.
I don't know if it would work with that Tek, though. But for some with that barely hidden Windows in them...

On the other hand it feels kind of like one of those Windows phones from way back
Windows is just not built for this

 

[berkeman]

The key was to stick a mouse in the back of the thing and use the screen instead

That's a good idea; I'll try it the next time I use that 'scope. Thanks.

 

[DaveE]

Look what I found stashed away in the top of my cabinet. Maybe not electrical, but it is old. Suitable for framing, I think.

Remember when an 8" floppy "diskette" with 360K was state of the art in portable storage? Remember CP/M, my first PC OS? No, y'all are probably too young for that flash in the tech pan.

 

[DaveE]

Look what I found stashed away in the top of my cabinet. Maybe not electrical, but it is old. Suitable for framing, I think.

Remember when an 8" floppy "diskette" with 360K was state of the art in portable storage? Remember CP/M, my first PC OS? No, y'all are probably too young for that flash in the tech pan.

View attachment 322323

In my case it went into a North Star Horizon. An S-100 buss computer. Maybe the last one with a wooden enclosure!

 

[collinsmark]

Look what I found stashed away in the top of my cabinet. Maybe not electrical, but it is old. Suitable for framing, I think.

Remember when an 8" floppy "diskette" with 360K was state of the art in portable storage? Remember CP/M, my first PC OS? No, y'all are probably too young for that flash in the tech pan.

View attachment 322323

I still have many dozens of floppy disks, even the 5 1/4 inch variety (when floppies were still floppy).

I keep meaning to pick up a usb floppy drive reader, but then I realize that I have a computer that will read them -- I just need to fix the computer.

I'm guessing it's something simple like needing to replace the CMOS battery. I might even have a fresh battery coin cell that will work (CR2032).

So then I keep meaning to look around for what can be used as a fresh CMOS battery. I'm sure there's at least one around here somewhere. It'll turn up.

Then I get distracted.

The cycle repeats.

 

[Tom.G]

So then I keep meaning to look around for what can be used as a fresh CMOS battery. I'm sure there's at least one around here somewhere. It'll turn up.

If the battery is soldered in, as many early ones were, you might want to read the old thread that the below quote came from.

And yes, you do have to clean afterwards. The flux residue absorbs moisture from the air and is partially conductive. As an example, one time I worked on a computer motherboard and failed to clean the flux off. The area was around the CMOS backup battery, a coin cell. They typically last a few to several years. Not this one, it lasted three weeks. So did its replacement. Had to remove the motherboard and wash off the flux!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[DaveE]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/open-circuits

 

[berkeman]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/open-circuits

Pretty cool, thanks Dave.

 

[dlgoff]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/open-circuits

Awesome. Perfect for this Beauty thread. And from their link, https://opencircuitsbook.com/, I see many things that I've used and probably still have today, somewhere.

 

[TonyStewart]

My 1st job in R&D was in 1975 at Bristol Aerospace. My introduction to HP Basic required me to measure my colleague's design of a UHF Tx to GOES I. I just had to measure frequency error and phase modulation errors a few milliseconds automatically at small intervals after power up. So I used something like this Tektronix Time Interval Counter and the HP9825. It has a Ruby stabilized fractional N synthesizer with another loop to reduce phase noise using an SC-cut Quartz oscillator accurate to within 1e12 by calibration. It took me a few hours to generate the printout .

This unit has a 9 digit frequency range with a diode doubler and a 0.1 Hz resolution. But ours had a rotary dial too.

80 column 10 segment display with a Silicon on Saphire CPU.

 

[TonyStewart]

p.s. I was one of the 1st HP9825 users in Canada in 1976, I had no support other than the HP Basic manual, but I should have written an article on how I converted two HP9825's with long distance datasets (RS412) in a SCADA system with a rack full of power supplies and analog measurements and a box filled with 96 x 25 A relays.

I think I remember some of the tricks I used to encode the keyboard each with macro remote commands and the synchronous data coming back using DMA to a smart CRT setup in Forms mode to look like a spreadsheet with 2 pages of data flashing if operator attn required after calibration. (before Visicalc was invented)

It replaced a control box with similar manual functions for Black Brandt pre-launch control on two umbilical cables. I recall they had problems with the data link every time the Short Wave radio was used ( yrs after I left the company for a big pay raise) in one remote control system from lack of EMI control up in Churchhill NRC research range. NRC range had several walls full of rack mounted telemetry equipment from PCM to PLL Rx to quad-helix phase control tracking antenna. It's also where I learned how to "Shake N Bake " with 100 g drop tests and 50 g spin tables and make my OCXO's survive 1e-10 stability. The shaker was a 10kW vacuum tube amplifier and 4ft diameter woofer baseplate for lack of a better description and it shook the whole bldg #3 from the basement.

 

[TonyStewart]

Look what I found stashed away in the top of my cabinet. Maybe not electrical, but it is old. Suitable for framing, I think.

Remember when an 8" floppy "diskette" with 360K was state of the art in portable storage? Remember CP/M, my first PC OS? No, y'all are probably too young for that flash in the tech pan.

View attachment 322323

I used to test 8" HDDs when 5.25" HDDs just came out with the Seagate ST-506 6 MB with a stepper driver. six megabytes could store hundreds of Apple ][ programs.

 

[DennisN]

Remember when an 8" floppy "diskette" with 360K was state of the art in portable storage? Remember CP/M, my first PC OS? No, y'all are probably too young for that flash in the tech pan.

I'm old enough to remember that .
Though I don't remember which was the first computer/OS I tried.
It could have been a machine running CP/M or possibly the Swedish ABC 80 (if so, I tried it in elementary school).

 

[DennisN]

Another post from the land of dusty old cameras running on ancient battery types...
(no, I still haven't started collecting these things, they've just somehow magically appeared in my home )

I had been looking for a good vintage system camera since I've thought about trying to shoot some film just for fun. I read a discussion on the internet somewhere where quite many recommended the Pentax Spotmatic because it apparently was/is a reliable workhorse. So I got me one of those, and yes, it appears to function properly. Here it is:

Pentax Spotmatic (1964 - 1976)

Front: with a mounted Yashikor 35mm f/2.8 M42 lens, a lens I really like.

Side: the silver-colored lever controls the self-timer.

Top: simple and easy, and nothing digital whatsoever here .

Next up we've got a Yashica camera which just happened to end up at my place.
I was looking for a Yashica lens (Yashinon-DS 50mm f/1.9) and found one, but with a camera attached to it:

Yashica TL-Electro (1972 - ?)

Front: with a Yashinon 55mm f/1.8 lens mounted; actually not a lens I particularly like,
but I think it looks good mounted on this camera.

Side: I think the design of the camera is very clean and minimalistic.

Top: The "PASSED" quality sticker is still attached to it .

And last, another camera which came as a bonus when I was looking for a lens.
It's a really basic camera which I first did not intend to keep, but now I think it's cool because it's quite small and lightweight for being a system camera (only 460 g), so I'll keep it:

Nikon EM (1979 - 1982)

Front: with a Nikon E 100mm f/2.8 mounted. An ok lens with a bit of uncommon focal length.

Side: The lens is actually quite small and lightweight for being a 100mm.

Top: extremely basic for being a system camera. There's no shutter speed dial so you can't
manually set the shutter speed; the camera always shoots in "Aperture priority" mode.

That's it for this time from the land of dusty old cameras .

 

[TonyStewart]

I'm old enough to remember that .
Though I don't remember which was the first computer/OS I tried.
It could have been a machine running CP/M or possibly the Swedish ABC 80 (if so, I tried it in elementary school).

I think my 1st exposure to 8" diskettes was the IBM Series 1 boot disk every day when the OS was rebooted. circa 1979.

 

[nsaspook]

Fancy new DSO scopes vs classic analog CRT scopes.

 

[Swamp Thing]

A modern DIY project with a retro tuning dial :

 

[DaveE]

The Weston cell. Clearly the most beautiful voltage reference ever made. I had one just like this rescued from some ancient lab equipment many decades ago but it's lost or gone now. Not RoHS compliant, LOL.

 

[DaveE]

Not really a measuring thing or electronic, but dear to my heart. I used one in high school chemistry class the year before I bought my first calculator. I'm probably the youngest person here that actually, really, used one of these. Very much associated with old electronics in my mind. There's beauty in logarithms as a tool in real life, not just another function in your math class, which every analog EE knows.

 

[Borg]

Ran across this installed in a friend's garage last night.

 

[marcusl]

In high school, I scored a Tektronix 514D oscilloscope that Hughes Aircraft had scrapped. I don't have a personal photo, but it looked like this

Here's a link where you can zoom in to view the controls.
https://mitmuseum.mit.edu/collections/object/1988.058.012.01
Introduced in 1950, it was one of the first models with a triggered sweep--something we don't even think about today. This was made possible by a broadband all-pass filter delay line that delayed the signal, giving time for a rising or falling edge to be detected and for the horizontal sweep to be triggered. The delay line is shown in this photo

It shows the board with all the trimmer capacitors that needed to be tuned to produce a flat frequency response. The instrument bandwidth was 800 kcps (kHz) full scale and an impressive (for its time) 10 Mcps at reduced amplitude. It also had an X axis port for displaying Lissajous figures and a Z axis (cathode) port for intensity modulation.

To use it, one adjusted the trigger threshold level with one knob and the horizontal sweep oscillator regeneration level with another such that oscillation was not quite self-sustaining. These settings interacted with each other and with the horizontal time base selector and with the vertical sensitivity, of course, so setting up to measure a recurring signal required a bit of fiddling. Turning the regeneration up put the scope into free-running, un-triggered, mode.

In around 1970, I wrote to Tektronix and they sent me a brand-new copy of the user and repair manual. (I was impressed that those were still in stock.) When I went off to grad school, my parents rather reasonably requested that the beast (it weighed over 60 lbs.) be removed from my former bedroom, so I gave it to a friend. I wish I still had it now. It was a trip to use!

 

[Ivan Nikiforov]

Look what I found stashed away in the top of my cabinet. Maybe not electrical, but it is old. Suitable for framing, I think.

Remember when an 8" floppy "diskette" with 360K was state of the art in portable storage? Remember CP/M, my first PC OS? No, y'all are probably too young for that flash in the tech pan.

View attachment 322323

In 1994, a family friend brought me a zx spectrum computer. It consisted of one keyboard and a monitor. The games were downloaded from a cassette recorder, and during the download process it was necessary to manually hold the passkey so that the stripes on the screen moved at a certain speed. In 1996, this man brought a zx spectrum computer with a metal system unit and it used such floppy disks. I have a lot of good and bright memories associated with these computers. I still sometimes play zx spectrum games in a program on a modern computer.

 

[Ivan Nikiforov]

I have such a device. A galvanometer with an optical pointer. This is a very sensitive device. It reacts if a magnet is simply brought closer to the wire. This device has an amazing history. In 2000, when I was a student, my classmate worked as a watchman at a municipal landfill. One evening I came to his office and he showed me various things he had found in the landfill. This device was among them. My friend didn't find anything valuable in it and wanted to throw it away. I asked for the device for myself. Only the incandescent lamp was defective. This device allowed me to conduct many experiments and allowed me to learn a lot about the nature of electromagnetism. The research I am currently doing would not have been possible without this device

 

[Baluncore]

That appears to be a "ballistic galvanometer".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_galvanometer

 

[khaledsalman]

Absolutely love this thread. There’s a timeless elegance in old electrical meters and devices—each piece tells a story of engineering with soul. At [Company reference redacted by the Mentors], we often come across vintage panels and enclosures during restoration or upgrades, especially in older industrial buildings around the Gulf.


Interestingly, we still find original Tapes used for insulation—some of them cloth-based or rubber types that stood the test of time. It's fascinating to compare those early materials with today’s modern PVC and high-performance Tapes that offer far better durability and resistance.


Restoring old equipment isn’t just about function—it’s preserving history. Hats off to everyone here keeping the legacy alive.

 

[DaveE]

‘Hands weaving magnetic-core memory, IBM, Poughkeepsie, New York,’ 1956. Photograph by Ansel Adams.

This photograph was made on a commercial assignment for IBM.

PS: my rough estimate, 3Kb

Also this from Wikipedia:

 

[DaveE]

I love this old steampunk data sheet. Especially the draftsman lettering. Thank god I never met one of these tube amps IRL, they look like a PITA to a guy raised on ICs.

http://www.philbrickarchive.org/k2-w_refurbished.pdf

 

[Baluncore]

Thank god I never met one of these tube amps IRL, they look like a PITA to a guy raised on ICs.

The 12AX7 continues to be used in guitar amplifiers today. I don't know why they worry you, it is just a matched pair of N-channel FETs, in a hermetic glass envelope, with a 12V pilot lamp.

 

[DaveE]

I don't know why they worry you

It might be that I think ±300V power supplies are a PITA. It might be the reliability of things that require heaters and vacuum seals. It might be that they are just really big and expensive for what they do. Maybe it's about supply chain and manufacturability issues. The market place has voted, and tubes like this lost a long, long time ago.

It might also be that you only see this sort of thing in the audiophile world. I'll spare you my diatribe about audiophile opinions about electronics, mostly based on my dislike of marketing types, except to say it's an outlier. YMMV.

But, I love the historical part of the technology and the data sheets made by hand!

 

[DaveE]

Perhaps the most risqué HP ad. Circa 1972. I recall this from a poster in the hallway of the Caltech EE building when I was an undergrad. Somehow it was moved to a hallway at Stanford, but I couldn't won't say how.

PS: That's an HP5451A/5466A Fourier Analyzer, before the computers took over.