Beauty vs Brains: Which is More Important?

[Zantra]

well, some women will put up with a lot if he has a lot of money...

And those same women eventually find out that money can't smooth everything over. Money's a bonus, not the mainstay- if you make it that, you'll be miserable.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Don't you think the really physically attractivewomen haveabove average intelligence? Isn't that part of their appeal?

Personally when I say a woman is attractive I am not referring in any great degree to her physical appearance. If I say a woman is "hot" or "sexy" then I am referring to her physical appearance but even words like "cute", "beautiful", and "gorgeous" in my mind have to do with a lot more than just the way a woman looks. So personally if I find a woman very attractive then she is most likely above average in intelligence. I have though seen quite a few girls that I thought were incredibly sexy based off of their physical appearance but then I heard them speak and was completely turned off. I have though developed a few safety measures concerning what I look for in a woman that I think make it less likely I will go after a girl that will trun out to be a ditz. If a woman apears to need regular trips to the salon to keep her hair looking the way it does it's generally a turn off. If a woman wears fake nails it's generally a trun off. Fake breasts: turn off. Slutty clothes: turn off. And several details about the way they dress and carry themselves all sort of combine to help me weigh out whether or not they seem to possibly be my type.

The reason I was thinking about this again is because there is this girl I have been talking to online. It's not likely that I will actually pursue anything with her at all but we flirt a lot and I have been threatening to ask her out. The thing is that she isn't very bright. When she first started talking to me I almost decided to ignore her until I saw that she was a fan of the Rat Pack and figured that she must not be all that bad. Since then I have found that she's incredibly sweet, we have quite a bit in common, and she seems relatively mature. The more I have talked to her the more attracted to her I have become. It still though bothers me that she seems to only be about average in regards to her intelligence. She is though incredibly hot lol.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I think men and women differ some here. I know men that will date women that are horrid just because he thinks she looks "hot". Women are more likely to dump a guy, no matter how good looking he is, if he turns out to be a jerk.

I've actually had a different experience. Most of the women I know have dated guys that may have been good looking but were complete jerks and stayed with them for long periods of time. I've seen plenty of guys stay with women that weren't very attractive at all, and I mean in more than just the physical sense, because they didn't think that they could do any better and these women definitely weren't "hot".

 

[pattylou]

Personally when I say a woman is attractive I am not referring in any great degree to her physical appearance. If I say a woman is "hot" or "sexy" then I am referring to her physical appearance but even words like "cute", "beautiful", and "gorgeous" in my mind have to do with a lot more than just the way a woman looks. So personally if I find a woman very attractive then she is most likely above average in intelligence. I have though seen quite a few girls that I thought were incredibly sexy based off of their physical appearance but then I heard them speak and was completely turned off. I have though developed a few safety measures concerning what I look for in a woman that I think make it less likely I will go after a girl that will trun out to be a ditz. If a woman apears to need regular trips to the salon to keep her hair looking the way it does it's generally a turn off. If a woman wears fake nails it's generally a trun off. Fake breasts: turn off. Slutty clothes: turn off. And several details about the way they dress and carry themselves all sort of combine to help me weigh out whether or not they seem to possibly be my type.

The reason I was thinking about this again is because there is this girl I have been talking to online. It's not likely that I will actually pursue anything with her at all but we flirt a lot and I have been threatening to ask her out. The thing is that she isn't very bright. When she first started talking to me I almost decided to ignore her until I saw that she was a fan of the Rat Pack and figured that she must not be all that bad. Since then I have found that she's incredibly sweet, we have quite a bit in common, and she seems relatively mature. The more I have talked to her the more attracted to her I have become. It still though bothers me that she seems to only be about average in regards to her intelligence. She is though incredibly hot lol.

Wow. Neat. Well, remember Spock's warning when Kirk beat him during Pon Fahr, and enjoy the chase.

I suppose you could start looking at your lesser priorities - does she have any hobbies you enjoy? Does she have any habits (like smoking) that would be difficult? What's her relationship with her parents like? If a person has a good relationship with their parents, that usually means they are a reasonable bet in terms of relationship. (Not to generalize, of course.)

Does she value edication? When I was teaching at a local college, there were some average students who really valued ediucation - and they were much more pleasant to be around than the average students who thought education was a waste of time. If she values edication, even if she struggles with it, then she has an active mind and that's good.

 

[Moonbear]

I think people find other people attractive for a variety of reasons, and as long as you can be honest about your preferences, both to yourself and the person you are attracted to, then whatever works for you is fine. If you prefer looks over intelligence, then don't complain if your dates all stare at you vacuously when you try telling clever jokes. If you prefer intelligence over looks, then don't complain if your date's hair isn't perfectly done every time you see her. If you prefer both, I'm still available! (I'm very modest too. )

The old saying still goes: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's also entirely possible that someone thinks they want a drop-dead gorgeous date, and wind up meeting someone more average looking but who has qualities they never thought they needed in a date and can't figure out how they ever did without once they meet, and all those other qualities are what makes them seem like the most beautiful person in the world.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Wow. Neat. Well, remember Spock's warning when Kirk beat him during Pon Fahr, and enjoy the chase.

I suppose you could start looking at your lesser priorities - does she have any hobbies you enjoy? Does she have any habits (like smoking) that would be difficult? What's her relationship with her parents like? If a person has a good relationship with their parents, that usually means they are a reasonable bet in terms of relationship. (Not to generalize, of course.)

Does she value edication? When I was teaching at a local college, there were some average students who really valued ediucation - and they were much more pleasant to be around than the average students who thought education was a waste of time. If she values edication, even if she struggles with it, then she has an active mind and that's good.

Really I just mentioned it because I feel bad for not be very attracted to her because she's only of about average intelligence. There are other reasons why I ought to stay away aswell. She lives in Simi Valley, which is quite a drive, and she's also only eighteen. The age difference is only eight years, not terrible, but it's more the fact that she is the age that she is, if you know what I mean. This is kinda getting away from topic though.

That being said, imo a date absolutely has to pass on looks. Two average looking people - one intelligent the other not - the intelligent one willwin. Two averagely intelligent people - one physically appealling and one not - Hmmm. THat's tougher, as there is baggage associated with really good looks (like vanity).

Now the thing is I'm not so much referring to the choosing here as the refusal. And I was wondering what people think of the social phenomenon more than personal opinion, though personal opinion is still apreciated ofcourse. I think I summed up what I'm talking about pretty well with this...

Wouldn't it be just as bad for me to think a person is unattractive because they are "ugly as sin" as it is for me to think that someone is unattractive because they are "as dumb as a door nail"?

So we can try to say that intelligence is a more valuable quality than beauty but is that really true? As a society we value beauty almost equally as we do intelligence and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. Yet when it comes to apraising an individual, while it's generally not bad form to respond well to beauty, it is considered bad of us to respond negatively to lack of beauty. At the same time there is no similar stigma on responding negatively to lack of intelligence. Personally it does bother me personally to some extent. I have been very angry with people for talk down on friends of mine that are good people but not terribly bright. There were also some articles a while back after the election pretty much talking down on all conservatives and claiming intellectual superiority on the part of liberals that really pissed me off. They were very degrading and bigoted but no one really seemed to care except for conservatives and they only cared because they were talking about conservatives.

 

[pattylou]

Well, I think the social phenomenon stems from the inequality in the work place, the women's movement in the 60's and 70's, and the physical superiority of the average male over the average female.

I think what I am saying is that intelligence in women has been under-rated, for various reasons, all because of the battle of the sexes.

I am sure few women have a problem wth valuing beauty. It's not an either or. It's just most women want to be seen as intelligent. Hell, most *people* want to be seen as intelligent.

"Yet when it comes to apraising an individual, while it's generally not bad form to respond well to beauty, it is considered bad of us to respond negatively to lack of beauty. At the same time there is no similar stigma on responding negatively to lack of intelligence."

Levels of intelligence is more likely to stratify people socially anyway. I certainly only work with bright, intelligent people. Mostly PhDs. And I party with them too. High school graduates are not qualified for the jobs I work in. Even intelligent people who do not get loads of education can usually find a way to succeed in the world - and end up at a roughly appropriate level. People with less intelligence can be more beautiful, more compassionate, more pleasant, and more interesting - but they still won't get the job in the office next to me. They'll get a different job.

While there may be some overlap in some areas (ex: hospice volunteering pulls in people from all over, solely on the basis of their desire to sit with those who are dying) I think you tend to see a much greater diversity in social settings (workplace, social get togethers, whatever) in regards to looks than in regards to intelligence. If that's the case (and I'm really just thinking off the top of my head) then there'd be more "political correctness" in place for being respectful to ugly people than to dumb people.

PC edit: And of course, attractiveness is more than skin deep. I actually know very few butt-ugly individuals. Even the ones with significant physical challenges make up for this in personality etc. to end up with a reasonable final package.

0.02

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Levels of intelligence is more likely to stratify people socially anyway. I certainly only work with bright, intelligent people. Mostly PhDs. And I party with them too. High school graduates are not qualified for the jobs I work in. Even intelligent people who do not get loads of education can usually find a way to succeed in the world - and end up at a roughly appropriate level. People with less intelligence can be more beautiful, more compassionate, more pleasant, and more interesting - but they still won't get the job in the office next to me. They'll get a different job.

This is definitely true but I think mainly in regard to working life. Not everyone hangs out with the people they work with or even the people they school with. In social scenes the stratification takes place mainly in regard to physical apearance and or confidence. Mostly in places such as bars and clubs or other social venues. I'm sure there are social places to go where intelligence is respected more as well but there are also high paying careers and work places that place emphasis on looks over intelligence.

 

[honestrosewater]

I was talking about society as whole intentionally encouraging and discouraging certain behaviors through morality, as it's done with things like racism, sexism, monogamy, and tolerance. But there are several messages here:

It's (good, okay, bad) to (accept, reject) people because of their (physical appearance, intelligence).
It's better to (accept, reject) people because of their (physical appearance, intelligence) than their (physical appearance, intelligence).​

I'm not sure which ones you're talking about, but take:

It's bad to reject people because of their physical appearance.​

I think this may be an extension of discouraging racism and sexism, treating women- and eventually men- like 'pieces of meat' or mere sex objects. But there could be something else at work in:

It's better to accept people because of their intelligence than their physical appearance.​

I think this is just a general realization that for most roles (careers, spouses/partners, parents) intelligence is more important than physical appearance. This is what I meant by society benefiting from intelligent people having babies (i.e. starting families).

What were the other messages you were interested in?

 

[loseyourname]

Personally, I can't help but be more attracted to women that are intelligent, but to be honest, I wish it wasn't so. Intelligence so often breeds arrogance and argumentativeness. Physical attractiveness depends. I don't find 'glamorous' women to be attractive at all, but certainly beauty has to be there. All in all, give me a woman who is artistic; a woman who can create and appreciate beauty. The best relationship I ever had was with a film school student. Her intelligence was above average, but nothing exceptional, and she wasn't all that good-looking (although she had the most wonderful, untameable Mediterranean hair I've ever known). Nonetheless, every moment with her had a celebratory feel to it. We realized that every river we stepped into would never exist again and the two of us savored every fleeting second of it. My current girlfriend is much smarter and prettier, but all she does is start debates over every comment I make, and her gaze is always turned inward, to the world of ideas and memories. She never seems to be experiencing the world around her and rarely celebrates anything.

Personally, I view my life literarily and live it like I'm reading a great novel, sometimes a book of great poetry. I become entranced in the storylines and savor the imagery. Then there are the literary devices - coincidences, synchronicity, and symbolism. Recognizing them and learning their meaning opens up new vistas daily. Even when the plot turns tragic and characters make fools of themselves, I still appreciate the artistry and beauty with which that plot is woven, and the subtle flaws that make those characters human. All I ask is a woman that does the same.

 

[fileen]

you can't really rely on a persons looks. no matter how beautiful a person is he or she will not remain that way. people tend to be good looking in their youth and lose their looks with age. intelligence is something that tends to remain.. not forever, but much longer than a persons looks. if you find yourself with someone who is tremendously less intelligent than yourself I think you will find yourself growing bored very very fast. unfortunatelyit seems to be true that really smart people can be very arrogant, but it is also true that very beautiful people can be rather arrogant as well. I don't mind a person with confidence, but what really bugs me are the stupid people who are convinced they are smart. you know a person knows nothing when they claim to know everything. I think my favourite quality to find in anyone, not just in intimate relationships, but friends, family, everyone, is an open mind. lots of people are extremely smart, but they refuse to wander "out of the box". there is no one more beautiful to me than a person who has no idea how smart and beautiful they truly are.

 

[Astronuc]

Well, for me humor is the most important thing. He needs to make me laugh. If he can do that, he's already half way there.

Intelligence is next, he must be smart.

and funny

And clever.

and funny

Wise.

and funny

Frugal.

and funny

Then looks.

Sounds like a description of ZapperZ.

But I think danger could qualify too.

 

[Clausius2]

First of all:

What does intelligence mean for each of us?.

Is Intelligence the amount of knowledge storaged during the life of a person?
Is Intelligence the capacity of rapid response of a person when he/she is asked for something?
Is Intelligence the capacity of being simpathetic with everyone around us?
Is Intelligence the quality of loving and being loved?

Personally, I search firstly a woman who is pretty looking, cause I spend some time and effort about mantaining my fitness and body doing physical exercises (cyclism, footing...etc). A person which seems not being afraid by his/her physical appearance is not understanding that physical fitness and mental health go usually joined together. Secondly, I search a woman with some substance inside her brain. That implies she has an acceptable brain speed processing to develop any logical thinking. I do not claim for someone able to solve differential equations. I do know many people who didn't study nothing and they have this capability of logical thinking. Thirdly she must be a "good person", she must be loyal with those who are loyal with her and not betray them. I love good persons, and I want to be near them in the future. I don't want to find myself with a great beauty woman who is an a$$hole and does not have any sense of loyalty and friendship.

Is there anyone over there who fit with my points?

EDIT: I forgot one more point: her favourite music group must be U2. In fact I have just found one woman like I have described above, but she rejected my invitation because she has a damn boyfriend yet. And she knows I will be in USA next year, so I have lost all my chances.

 

[Lisa!]

First of all:

What does intelligence mean for each of us?.

Is Intelligence the amount of knowledge storaged during the life of a person?
Is Intelligence the capacity of rapid response of a person when he/she is asked for something?
Is Intelligence the capacity of being simpathetic with everyone around us?
Is Intelligence the quality of loving and being loved?

Personally, I search firstly a woman who is pretty looking, cause I spend some time and effort about mantaining my fitness and body doing physical exercises (cyclism, footing...etc). A person which seems not being afraid by his/her physical appearance is not understanding that physical fitness and mental health go usually joined together. Secondly, I search a woman with some substance inside her brain. That implies she has an acceptable brain speed processing to develop any logical thinking. I do not claim for someone able to solve differential equations. I do know many people who didn't study nothing and they have this capability of logical thinking. Thirdly she must be a "good person", she must be loyal with those who are loyal with her and not betray them. I love good persons, and I want to be near them in the future. I don't want to find myself with a great beauty woman who is an a$$hole and does not have any sense of loyalty and friendship.

Is there anyone over there who fit with my points?

EDIT: I forgot one more point: her favourite music group must be U2. In fact I have just found one woman like I have described above, but she rejected my invitation because she has a damn boyfriend yet. And she knows I will be in USA next year, so I have lost all my chances.

You should be like what she wants not she!

 

[Astronuc]

I forgot one more point: her favourite music group must be U2. In fact I have just found one woman like I have described above, but she rejected my invitation because she has a damn boyfriend yet. And she knows I will be in USA next year, so I have lost all my chances.

Just wait until you get to San Diego!

In the meantime, pass your driving test and consider Lisa!'s advice.

 

[Lisa!]

First of all:

What does intelligence mean for each of us?.

It could be all you mentioned!But do it's difficult to find someone with all of these abilities!

Is there anyone over there who fit with my points?

Maybe Evo kid! But I think you have to be damn humourist!

EDIT: I forgot one more point: her favourite music group must be U2. In fact I have just found one woman like I have described above, but she rejected my invitation because she has a damn boyfriend yet. And she knows I will be in USA next year, so I have lost all my chances.

You said she should have a sense of loyalty and friendship.So if she left her bf, she couldn't be your kind of woman!

 

[Clausius2]

You should be like what she wants not she!

Good point. I should be like what she wants...and she should be like I want.
How about this?

You said she should have a sense of loyalty and friendship.So if she left her bf, she couldn't be your kind of woman!

Ehemmm...this last point of my normative has one exception: when a girl wants to leave her bf, it is always welcome. Merely I erase the notebook and start a new account for her.

 

[Lisa!]

But you should be careful.She may leave you too!And it could be so bad if you'd love her!

 

[Clausius2]

Levels of intelligence is more likely to stratify people socially anyway. I certainly only work with bright, intelligent people. Mostly PhDs.

I don't think the same. The relation:

+education \rightarrow +intelligence

is wrong in many cases. I have attended to many classes given by bright minds, who hadn't any social-emotional capabilities. This last characteristic is a proof of a lack of intelligence. Modern phsychologists define intelligence as a sum of education+emotions and symphathy towards the rest of people. A bright Ph.D. sat in his room every time can have an intelligent behavior when he is trying to solve an scientific problem, but he is not globally intelligent if he doesn't have the capability of social interaction, neither he has the common sense needed for taking correct decisions in his daily life apart of his scientific dealings. To sum up, I would say that stupidity can be also hosted by a brilliant academic mind.

 

[Clausius2]

But you should be careful.She may leave you too!And it could be so bad if you'd love her!

I don't care. And before it, I will assure myself she is not going to leave me, but in an emergency case I would leave her . Anyway I will expose myself to that kind of risk without any problem :!) .

 

[Lisa!]

But most of scientists don't have this ability.You know most of them prefer studying a book to have social interaction.They may start talking to them about a very funny subject but at last you'll see they're discussing about a seriousscientific subject!

 

[Lisa!]

I don't care. And before it, I will assure myself she is not going to leave me, but in an emergency case I would leave her . Anyway I will expose myself to that kind of risk without any problem :!) .

wow you're dangerous!

 

[Clausius2]

But most of scientists don't have this ability.You know most of them prefer studying a book to have social interaction.They may start talking to them about a very funny subject but at last you'll see they're discussing about a seriousscientific subject!

I know. But we must balance ourselves to do the best in all fields, and being able to switch your brain and change to non serious topics of conversation. The best sciencist I have known (my undergraduate project advisor) is a brilliant guy, but I assure you will not give up laughing when you are with him. A great sciencist or any people who have to develop efficiently some task, must be a balanced person.

wow you're dangerous!

Not quite. Don't believe any word. I am like a dog who barks a lot but bits much less.

 

[Lisa!]

I know. But we must balance ourselves to do the best in all fields, and being able to switch your brain and change to non serious topics of conversation. The best sciencist I have known (my undergraduate project advisor) is a brilliant guy, but I assure you will not give up laughing when you are with him. A great sciencist or any people who have to develop efficiently some task, must be a balanced person.

You're right.


You know it's really funny when some of scientists fall in love! Imagine them when they're trying to impress their woman with explaining about difficult theories! 1 of my professors always told us scientific jokes which were difficult to understand for us and we laughed because we couldn't understand what he meant! He continued his jokes because he thought we would like his class more!

Not quite. Don't believe any word. I am like a dog who barks a lot but bits much less.

So you have a lot in common with other men!

 

[Clausius2]

So you have a lot in common with other men!

My main failures with women have been precisely that I have nothing in common with other men. But I mean I have nothing (including positive and negative characteristics) with other men. I am a bit strange, and as you can see in my profile I have been brought up in a suburb, where every guy does not worry about studying something or learning how to play the coffee machine (as arildno does ). They belong to an specie I am far away. But for local girls, they have great advantages: more money, a car, muscles, action and so on. I remain unknown for these girls, who in two cases have seen me as an strange positive case, and maybe it has discouraged them thinking they weren't what I was looking for. On the other hand, I have my positive points too, which I prefer not comment .

 

[kaos]

I think ppl don't frown on picking partners based on intelligence is because ppl assume that one can work hard to increase intelligence (such as reading and other intellectual activities) while you are born with your physical appearances .

 

[vanesch]

So, what if it was a intelligent, clever, funny, wise, frugal, funny pig?

Ha, that's me !

 

[vanesch]

My main failures with women have been precisely that I have nothing in common with other men.

Some advice of an "old wolf" like me

- thinking you're an exception is a mistake. You have maybe nothing in common with other guys *you know* but I'm sure there are other people like you. Maybe not on this planet, but somewhere, in this (or another) universe. Don't give up hope. We are all with you

- try to go for a rich, stupid, goodlooking chick ;-)

- in the mean time, go with anything :-)

 

[loseyourname]

I think ppl don't frown on picking partners based on intelligence is because ppl assume that one can work hard to increase intelligence (such as reading and other intellectual activities) while you are born with your physical appearances .

I think the opposite. You can study for ages, but you're either intelligent or not, and it's marked more by your ability to learn than by anything you have learned. On the other hand, you can do plenty to make yourself look better, from dressing better to better grooming to wearing makeup, all the way to getting surgery.

 

[kexex]

intelligence is key role to success in the business. like the jocks they do have talent until they have to retire from there sport. models have until the beauty is worn out by age. now the brain can make a little success from the start and make a bang at the end.

if you choose brains you get to hurt ppl mentally
beauty is hurting emotionally
brawn is hurting ppl physically