Bill Doyle: Treating cancer with electric fields

  • Medical
  • Thread starter rhody
  • Start date
  • #26
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
I found this link while going through all the links in my last post, as luck would have it, the second post from the bottom labeled, Science Tests new magnifier:
In it's present state of development the new microscope is reliably reported to have a visual magnifying power of 17,000 diameters, compared to 5000 diameters, said to be the limit of commercial instruments. Due to the fact that images borne to the eye by light waves measuring about one 50-1000ths of an inch in length, it has been supposed that no object considerably less than that would be seen by the human eye. By the use of quartz prisms, it is understood that Dr Rife has broken up the light waves, making it possible to bring impossibly small objects into view. Through the new microscope, according to estimates, an object measuring 1 100-1000ths of an inch in diameter would be magnified to be one sixth of an inch in diameter.
atty,

From your last link in your last post:
The answer is a comprehensive array of laser and electron-based microscopes, such as a Carl Zeiss Libra 120 PLUS energy-filtered transmission electron microscope (EF-TEM) with a $1.5 million price-tag.
This uses super resolution microscopy over coming the limitations of light itself, wait, where have I heard this before ? DNA organization can be observed during viral infection and cancer (think folding). Gene 53, the guardian of the genomes because it protects against mutation, when it is inactivated it stops the genome from uncontrolled division and growth, arresting cancer cells. Clodagh O'Shea (video in the link) describes this process using the engineered virus (gene 53 disabled), depending on loss for replication. One must stop to wonder though, what becomes of the engineered virus itself when all of the cancer cells are killed, where does it go, what does it do, wait quietly for more cancer ? What if it itself mutates itself to something not so helpful, what then ? She does not address these issues in the video.

This high tech marvel can now do with real time imaging and state of the art laser techniques what Dr Rife managed to do (crudely, without knowledge of DNA) (with no data recording or playback at full or any desired speed) for a mere pittance almost 90 years before with unprecedented (for the time) resolution and accuracy, through hard work, infinite patience and perseverance. Not to the degree of understanding we have today, but nonetheless, no less impressive to me.

Rife said before he passed away:
The most important thing I ever did was build a microscope.
See last paragraph of the news link of his death.

Rhody...
 
  • #28
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
Apparently she published it in Nature, and apparently there's a free version available http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20740008 .
Thanks, if you have read it in layman's terms does it say what I tried maybe unsuccessfully and at best very crudely to convey above ? If you have more questions for us to ponder, that would be great. I love mind blowing ideas, they get me going, they are beg for explanation that just appears beyond our reach. Science is great huh, lol.

Rhody...

P.S. Is transcription factor 53 and Gene 53 one in the same, or something different ? I got this from a quick scan of the paper summary.
 
Last edited:
  • #29
atyy
Science Advisor
14,003
2,283
Thanks, if you have read it in layman's terms
I hope you don't think I'm not a layman!

OK, now I've confused myself with the double negative! I am a layman!
 
  • #30
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
I hope you don't think I'm not a layman!

OK, now I've confused myself with the double negative! I am a layman!
Thanks, if you have read it, in layman's terms

Amazing what a comma will do to clarify things, huh ?

Carry on Master Yoda, carry on...

Rhody... :wink:
 
  • #31
bobze
Science Advisor
Gold Member
647
18
Bobze,

What you said is true, you failed to mention that when en electron microscope is used on a living bacteria or virus it destroys it. Rife's microscope did not affect the specimen under study, a definite advantage, no ? It could be observed before, during and after treatment.

Rhody...
In deed. To see useful things in bacteria you have to kill them. We even do this in light microscopy--Those colorful cells didn't get colorful by themselves. First he put them on a slide, then we cook them, then we color them with toxic dyes. Bacterial cells lack "pigment"--So to say, as do the structures in them. Without dye there isn't much to see.

About the only thing useful to see in a light microscope of unstained specimens is the way something moves (does it tumble? dart? float?)--Aside from that looking at unstained specimens isn't really all that useful. I've looked at plenty of unstained bacterial cells, they are...unremarkable to say the least.

Is there any evidence to support Royal's claims that he was looking at live, unstained specimens and "extracting useful" things about them? Or does this door lead back to a middle of the century newspaper claim and just-so stories told on internet conspiracy websites, copied to other websites, copied to other websites and on into legend?
 
  • #32
bobze
Science Advisor
Gold Member
647
18
P.S. Is transcription factor 53 and Gene 53 one in the same, or something different ? I got this from a quick scan of the paper summary.
p53 is encoded by TP53.
 
  • #33
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
Is there any evidence to support Royal's claims that he was looking at live, unstained specimens and "extracting useful" things about them?
I'm on it, will produce the best evidence, verifiable, I can find, it may take a bit though.

Rhody...
 
  • #35
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
I'm on it, will produce the best evidence, verifiable, I can find, it may take a bit though.

Rhody...

This documentary part 4, (fast forward to 6:24) with clips of Rife's own voice, establishes what he believed to be a virus (any pathogenic organism that was one order smaller than a bacteria, too small to be seen). To Rife the viruses were the minute filterable forms of the much larger bacteria (6:55), the two organisms married in a pleomorphic relationship. Most researchers of the day considered pleomorphsm as fallacy.

At (8:25, after many failures with human breast cancer cells attempting to grow a culture from it in all kinds of media, he succeeded using Kendall's K medium, can only be seen under monochromatic light at an angle of twelve and three tenths degrees, he observed red/purple ovoid granules that are highly motile. He fulfilled Koch's postulates for a cancer causing micro organism. Fast forward to 14:23 footage from Rife's microscope, 11.78 Mhz the frequency that disabled the BX virus.

This is the Documentary 4 of 9 on Rife's Forgotten story. Does the voice, news clippings and video ring true to you ?

Rhody...

PS Here are links to Parts 1 - 9, I find it curious that the documentary was uploaded on March 30, 2011. I would have liked this summary documentary while I was searching to piece together the puzzle of Rife's life and achievements years and years ago, sadly, it wasn't available then. I watched them all.

Please look to dispute or find parts that are inflated, forged, are inconsistent, do not ring true. Notice the small number of hits on all of these almost a year later, not sure what to make of that. For me the most interesting parts were in videos 1 - 5 about his rise and discoveries.

I used to correspond to one of the narrators in the video, Jason Ringas, who was at time trying to assemble a verifiable, comprehensive history of Rife's inventions and achievements. It appears with the tapes discovered in 2000 and then incorporated into the videos that his organization succeeded. I sent him an email to thank him and his organization for their tireless efforts and a link to this post. We will see if he remembers me and responds through the organization at the top of the video.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9

Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #36
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
Wow, I blew Quality Assurance (QA) on the last post, huh, two Rhody signatures. I see there has been a fair amount of interest, any preliminary thoughts or suggestions for avenues of research to drill down to based on his testing methods, etc... I can think of a few, but was hoping there were others with their own thoughts. I promise I won't screw up my signature in this post, lol.

Rhody...
 
  • #37
atyy
Science Advisor
14,003
2,283
Here are my thoughts.

1a Can viruses be seen by optical microscopy? Yes, by superesolution techniques.
1b. Did Rife see viruses by optical microscopy? Possibly, but probably not.

2. Are viruses and bacteria morphologically different forms of the same organism? No.

3a. Can viruses cause cancer? Maybe.
3b. Did Rife demonstrate that viruses cause cancer? Possibly, but probably not.

4a. Can the appropriate application of electromagnetic fields kill cells? Probably.
4b. Did Rife demonstrate that EM fields kill cells? Plausibly.
4c. Can EM fields be applied to kill cancer cells and spare normal cells? Plausibly, we await the results of Doyle's further work.
 
Last edited:
  • #38
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
It appears with the tapes discovered in 2000 and then incorporated into the videos that his organization succeeded.
I wanted to make a correction, the tapes were discovered in 1999 and then after cleaning up the audio, splicing, etc... portions of them were incorporated into the documentary that is presented here. I have some commentary that will require verification soon. Glad to see that there are no glaring misrepresentations or bad science reporting evident here.

Rhody...
 
  • #39
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
You knew I would be back to this, didn't you ? It is too important to ignore for too long, I spent considerable time with this please feel free to question and probe as you see fit, and I know you will, hehe...

I have done some digging into post #35 above. In particular the video #4 minutes 7:00 - 14:00. There are a few terms used so I will present background first.

To understand what Rife was thinking in his experiments you must first understand the size scales he was dealing with, virus's that Rife studied we very small, on the order of 20 - 300nm and have enormous structural diversity, a definition follows, wiki:
Virus particles (known as virions) consist of two or three parts: the genetic material made from either DNA or RNA, long molecules that carry genetic information; a protein coat that protects these genes; and in some cases an envelope of lipids that surrounds the protein coat when they are outside a cell. The shapes of viruses range from simple helical and icosahedral forms to more complex structures. The average virus is about one one-hundredth the size of the average bacterium. Most viruses are too small to be seen directly with a light microscope.
Viruses as a species have enormous diversity, than any other, and it is claimed that only a small percentage of the millions of species have been studied in detail. Again from the same wiki above:
An enormous variety of genomic structures can be seen among viral species; as a group, they contain more structural genomic diversity than plants, animals, archaea, or bacteria. There are millions of different types of viruses,[4] although only about 5,000 of them have been described in detail.[3] A virus has either DNA or RNA genes and is called a DNA virus or a RNA virus, respectively. The vast majority of viruses have RNA genomes. Plant viruses tend to have single-stranded RNA genomes and bacteriophages tend to have double-stranded DNA genomes.
Next, to understand Rife's thinking during his experiments you must wrap your mind around the concept of pleomorphism:
in microbiology, is the ability of some bacteria to alter their shape or size in response to environmental conditions. Pleiomorphism has been observed in some members of the Deinococcaceae family.[1] The modern definition of pleomorphism in the context of bacteriology is based on variation of size or shape of the cell, rather than a change of shape as previously believed.

In the first decades of the 20th century, the term "pleomorphism" was used to refer to the idea that bacteria changed shape dramatically or existed in a number of extreme morphological forms. This claim was controversial among microbiologists of the time, and split them into two schools: the monomorphists, who opposed the claim, and the pleomorphists (such as Antoine Béchamp, Günther Enderlein and Albert Calmette).[2]

Monomorphic theory, supported by Louis Pasteur, Rudolf Virchow, Ferdinand Cohn, and Robert Koch, emerged to become the dominant paradigm in modern medical science: it is now almost universally accepted that each bacterial cell is derived from a previously existing cell of practically the same size and shape. However it has recently been shown that certain bacteria are capable of dramatically changing shape, for example Helicobacter pylori exists as both a helix-shaped form (classified as a curved rod) and a coccoid form.
To Rife, viruses were the minute filterable forms of the much larger bacteria (see 6:55 in the video), pleomorphic bacterial transformational model. He believed this because his microscope allowed him to view bacteria with subcomponents only visible through his prism refracting microscope. No one else was able to do this at the time to confirm because they did not have access to it. To conventional biologists at the time, viruses and bacteria are NOT related. Today it is believed it is impossible to cultivate a cancer virus out of an artificial culture medium. Rife claimed this was false in 1932.

Now for Koch's Postulates, one of the tenants of the results of the experiments that Rife conducted:
  1. The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.
  2. The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
  3. The cultured microorganism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
  4. The microorganism must be re-isolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent.
Rife was able to produce his "BX Virus" out of a human breast cancer tumor, cultured it in Dr Kendall's special K Medium (made from pig intestine), then injected the tumor and K medium into healthy mice, producing the disease, and then recovered the same microorganism from the mice, satisfying Koch's postulate.

We are not quite done yet, watch carefully the video from 9:45 - 12:50. You must watch this carefully, there are two more transitional states (BX -> BY -> fungal) to consider.

Rife used Dr Gruner's asparagus medium, a hard based medium to grow a fungus (with 14 stages from diseased blood obtained from Kendal's K medium. When Gruner's fungus was cultured on Kendall's K Media, the BX virus emerged. Image taken from: The Forgotten Story of Royal Raymond Rife - Documentary Part 4 of 9

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1895/mediumii.jpg [Broken]

Rife's BX virus in Gruner's asparagus medium the BX virus changed into Gruner's fungus. Rife completed these transformational steps 104 times and was able to produce cancer in hundreds of healthy mice with the BX virus.

Rife then was able to take the BX virus culture it with Dr Gruner's asparagus medium and produce cryptomyces pleomorphia fungi, completing the cycle.

Image taken from: The Forgotten Story of Royal Raymond Rife - Documentary Part 4 of 9

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/612/medium1v.jpg [Broken]

Rife and Gruner believed that a microorganism is associated with cancer and it is by nature pleomorphc.

An personal observation, I think the father of radio frequency medicine for the treatment of cancer should be given a hard look, with the full weight of science thrown behind it, and the methods of Rife, Gruner and others who supported him be put through rigorous modern day experiments to verify or disprove Rife and others who supporting his work. I will breathe a great sigh of personal relief if and when that day does come, I believe it will eventually. There are many others I have corresponded with and read about over the years who believe it as well.

Rhody...

Supporting background and links:

Kendal's K Medium made from hog intestine:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC533442/pdf/jbacter00823-0003.pdf
unsuccessful attempts to reproduce Kendall's result 1932

CRYPTOMYCES PLEOMORPHA: A NEW ORGANISM ISOLATED FROM THE BLOOD OF A CASE OF METASTASIZED CARCINOMA OF THE BREAST *
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1560962/?page=1

http://www.rifedigital.com/rife-machine-24/
Success at reproducing a virus outside of a "live host"

One of the best quotes I have ever heard that sums up Rife's microscope: from link above.

"The light used with Dr. Rife's microscope is polarized, that is, it is passing through crystals that stop all rays except those vibrating in one particular plane. By means of a double reflecting prism built into the instrument, it is possible to turn this plane of vibration in any desired direction, controlling the illumination of the minute objects in the field very exactly."

Another quote:

"As I visualize the matter, your ingenious method of illumination with the intense monochromatic beam of light is of even greater importance than the enormously high magnification. . . ." Rosenow was right. The unique "color frequency" staining method was the great breakthrough. "

Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #40
bobze
Science Advisor
Gold Member
647
18
An personal observation, I think the father of radio frequency medicine for the treatment of cancer should be given a hard look, with the full weight of science thrown behind it, and the methods of Rife, Gruner and others who supported him be put through rigorous modern day experiments to verify or disprove Rife and others who supporting his work. I will breathe a great sigh of personal relief if and when that day does come, I believe it will eventually. There are many others I have corresponded with and read about over the years who believe it as well.
Rhody...

Rhody, Rife's claim were looked at by the scientific community at large--And found to be false. We have a much, much better understanding of cancer today then existed in Rife's times.

I also suspect that Rife's lab technique was probably quite shoddy and the different "fungi" and whatnot that magically appeared were contaminants--If they existed at all.

Rife was a conspiracy theorist, a crank and probably out to make an easy buck:

Rife's claims could not be independently replicated, [5] and were ultimately discredited by the medical profession in the 1950s. Rife blamed the scientific rejection of his claims on a conspiracy involving the American Medical Association (AMA), the Department of Public Health, and other elements of "organized medicine", which had "brainwashed" potential supporters of his devices.[6]

Interest in Rife's claims was revived in some alternative medical circles by the 1987 book "The Cancer Cure That Worked", which claimed that Rife had succeeded in curing cancer, but that his work was suppressed by a powerful conspiracy headed by the AMA.[7][5] After this book's publication, a variety of devices bearing Rife's name were marketed as cures for diverse diseases such as cancer and AIDS. An analysis by Electronics Australia found that a typical 'Rife device' consisted of a nine-volt battery, wiring, a switch, a timer and two short lengths of copper tubing, which delivered an "almost undetectable" current unlikely to penetrate the skin.[8] Several marketers of other 'Rife devices' have been convicted for health fraud, and in some cases cancer patients who used these devices as a replacement for medical therapy have died.[9] Rife devices are currently classified as a subset of radionics devices, which are generally viewed as pseudomedicine by mainstream experts.[5]
From the Wikipedia article on him.

The modern "Rife revival" is a product of the charlatans, frauds and snake-oil salesman that can be found predating upon people in tough situations--Hard medical problems. There is always an easy mark on the downtrodden and unfortunately all this "Rife" business is simply more of the same. Again from Wikipedia;

Interest in Rife was revived in the 1980s by author Barry Lynes, who wrote a book about Rife entitled "The Cancer Cure That Worked". The book claimed that Rife's 'beam ray' device could cure cancer, but that all mention of his discoveries was suppressed in the 1930s by a wide-ranging conspiracy headed by the American Medical Association. The American Cancer Society described Lynes' claims as implausible, noting that the book was written "in a style typical of conspiratorial theorists" and defied any independent verification.[5]

In response to this renewed interest, devices bearing Rife's name began to be produced and marketed in the 1980s. Such 'Rife devices' have figured prominently in a number of cases of health fraud in the U.S., typically centered around the uselessness of the devices and the grandiose claims with which they are marketed. In a 1996 case, the marketers of a 'Rife device' claiming to cure numerous diseases including cancer and AIDS were convicted of felony health fraud.[14] The sentencing judge described them as "target[ing] the most vulnerable people, including those suffering from terminal disease" and providing false hope.[15] In 2002 John Bryon Krueger, who operated the Royal Rife Research Society, was sentenced to 12 years in prison for his role in a murder and also received a concurrent 30-month sentence for illegally selling Rife devices. In 2009 a U.S. court convicted James Folsom of 26 felony counts for sale of the Rife devices sold as 'NatureTronics', 'AstroPulse', 'BioSolutions', 'Energy Wellness', and 'Global Wellness'. [16]

Several deaths have resulted from the use of Rife machines in place of standard medical treatment. In one case, a U.S. court found that the marketer of a Rife device had violated the law and that, as a result of her actions, a cancer patient had ceased chemotherapy and died.[17] In Australia, the use of Rife machines has been blamed for the deaths of cancer patients who might have been cured with conventional therapy.[8]

In 1994, the American Cancer Society reported that Rife machines were being sold in a "pyramid-like, multilevel marketing scheme". A key component in the marketing of Rife devices has been the claim, initially put forward by Rife himself, that the devices were being suppressed by an establishment conspiracy against cancer "cures".[5] Although 'Rife devices' are not registered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and have been linked to deaths among cancer sufferers, the Seattle Times reported that over 300 people attended the 2006 Rife International Health Conference in Seattle, where dozens of unregistered devices were sold.[9]
You can find more about the quackery and dishonest marketing of "Rifisms" at Quackwatch. Some articles that maybe of interest to you;

Some Notes on the American Academy of Quantum Medicine (AAQM)
Rife Machine Operator Sued
 

Related Threads on Bill Doyle: Treating cancer with electric fields

Replies
6
Views
4K
Replies
10
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
14
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
886
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
27
Views
6K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
5K
Top