Black Body Entropy: Solving the Puzzle of q and N

In summary: This interpretation is valid for both the Einstein solid and the blackbody radiation system. In summary, the expression ##S = kln(\frac{(q+N-1)!}{q!(N-1)!})## applies to both the Einstein solid and Planck's blackbody-radiation resonators, with ##q## representing the total number of energy quanta in the system of N oscillators.
  • #1
LCSphysicist
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Homework Statement
I am having trouble to understand how the entropy of a black body was derived .
Relevant Equations
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1607312031349.png

I thought that would be something like, using similar counts from Einstein solid, ##S = kln(\frac{(q+N-1)!}{q!(N-1)!})##
Where q is ##hv##
v is frequency

But the results are not similar, so i am little stuck
 
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  • #2
Herculi said:
I thought that would be something like, using similar counts from Einstein solid, S=kln((q+N−1)!q!(N−1)!)
Yes. With a proper interpretation of ##q##, this expression for ##S## will apply to both the Einstein solid and Planck's blackbody-radiation resonators (oscillators).

Where q is hv
v is frequency
From the above expression for ##S##, ##q## must be dimensionless since ##N## and 1 are dimensionless. So, ##q## can't denote the energy ##h \nu##. What does ##q## actually represent for the Einstein solid? What does ##q## represent for the blackbody radiation system?
 
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  • #3
TSny said:
Yes. With a proper interpretation of ##q##, this expression for ##S## will apply to both the Einstein solid and Planck's blackbody-radiation resonators (oscillators).

From the above expression for ##S##, ##q## must be dimensionless since ##N## and 1 are dimensionless. So, ##q## can't denote the energy ##h \nu##. What does ##q## actually represent for the Einstein solid? What does ##q## represent for the blackbody radiation system?
In Einstein solid, it is in fact the energy unit, as far as i know. I never noticed that you pointed. Thinking better, maybe q can be equal to the total energy E divided by the energy unit hv, that is, ##q = E_{tot}/hv##?
 
  • #4
Herculi said:
In Einstein solid, it is in fact the energy unit, as far as i know. I never noticed that you pointed. Thinking better, maybe q can be equal to the total energy E divided by the energy unit hv, that is, ##q = E_{tot}/hv##?
Yes, ##q## is the total number of energy quanta in the system of N oscillators.
 
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1. What is black body entropy?

Black body entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness of a system at a given temperature. It is a fundamental concept in thermodynamics and plays a crucial role in understanding the behavior of physical systems.

2. How is black body entropy related to the puzzle of q and N?

The puzzle of q and N refers to the discrepancy between the theoretical prediction and experimental observation of black body radiation. Black body entropy is a key factor in solving this puzzle as it helps explain the behavior of particles in a black body and their distribution of energy levels.

3. What is the significance of solving the puzzle of q and N?

Solving the puzzle of q and N has far-reaching implications in various fields of science, including thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, and astrophysics. It can help us better understand the behavior of matter and radiation in extreme conditions and improve our understanding of the universe.

4. How is black body entropy calculated?

Black body entropy can be calculated using the Boltzmann formula, which takes into account the number of possible microstates of a system at a given temperature. It is also related to the number of particles, energy levels, and the Boltzmann constant.

5. Are there any practical applications of black body entropy?

Yes, black body entropy has practical applications in fields such as thermodynamics, material science, and energy production. It is used to calculate the efficiency of engines and power plants, as well as to understand the behavior of materials at high temperatures.

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