Block Diagram of Transfer function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around simplifying a block diagram to obtain the closed-loop transfer function, focusing on the steps involved in the reduction process and the interpretation of specific components within the diagram. The context is primarily homework-related, with participants seeking clarification on the methodology used in control systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to eliminate the summing point before the last block and replace it with the expression (1/G2(s)) + 1.
  • Another participant notes the absence of one of the attachments needed for clarification, suggesting that understanding the simplification process may depend on seeing both diagrams.
  • A participant explains that the last summing node is not part of any feedback loops and can be simplified by combining two parallel blocks into a single block with a sum, referencing a control block reduction rule.
  • One participant questions the origin of the +1 in the expression (1/G2) + 1, seeking further explanation.
  • Another participant describes the implications of having a line with no block in the diagram, suggesting that it represents a direct relationship (Y = X) and hints at the value of A that would allow for this simplification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the specific steps of simplification, as there are multiple interpretations and questions regarding the process. The discussion remains unresolved with ongoing inquiries and clarifications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion due to missing attachments that are crucial for understanding the problem fully. Additionally, the participants rely on specific rules and interpretations that may vary based on different textbooks or resources.

jahlin
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Homework Statement



Simplify the block diagram in figure and obtain the closed-loop transfer function. The first attachment is the question and the second attachment is the first step to the simplification of the block diagram.

Homework Equations



What i don't understand is how do you get rid off the summing point before the last block and replace it with the block( (1/G2(s))+1) in the first step. I don't understand the first step at all. any help would be appreciated. thanks.

The Attempt at a Solution

 

Attachments

  • step1.JPG
    step1.JPG
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You mention two attachments, but I only see one. I am guessing that you "only" have trouble identifying which simple reductions that have been employed from first to second diagram, but without seeing both diagrams its probably hard for people here to give you help.
 
heres the block diagram which i refer to in my original post.

the above attachment is the 1st step in reducing this block diagram.
 

Attachments

  • control.JPG
    control.JPG
    9.1 KB · Views: 607
Note, that the last sum node is not involved in any feed-back loops, so its input is simply two parallel blocks with a common input, which can be reduced to a single block with a sum. Picking the first hit I get when searching for "control block reduction" [1] as reference, the reduction can be seen as a case of applying rule 4. You should be able to find the reduction in your textbook if it has a similar list of rules.

[1] http://www.msubbu.in/sp/ctrl/BD-Rules.htm
 
what i fail to figure out is (1/G2) + 1 where this +1 comes from.

thanks for your help.
 
The last sum node has two inputs: a line with a 1/G2 block and a line with no block. As you know, the diagram X --->A--- Y represents the equation Y = AX, that is, if you start with X and then multiply it with block A you get Y. Now think about what the diagram would mean if the line has no block, like X ------ Y (hint: it means Y=X) and what value of A would correspond to this diagram (hint: what value of A makes Y=AX equal to X=Y? Having this special value you can replace an empty line with a line that has a block with this special value).
 

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