What is the Well-Known Feedback Expression for Block Diagram Manipulation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of finding the poles of a closed loop transfer function using block diagram reduction methods. Participants are exploring the manipulation of feedback loops and summation points within the context of control systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to handle the summation point in the block diagram reduction process, questioning whether it can be removed.
  • Another participant suggests that instead of removing the feedback loop, it should be combined with the forward block, indicating that this represents a local feedback loop that can be simplified using established feedback expressions.
  • A later reply prompts clarification on what specific "well-known feedback expression" is being referenced, indicating a need for further elaboration on this concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on how to approach the summation point and feedback loop, indicating that multiple views and uncertainties remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the clarity of the feedback expressions mentioned and the specific methods for handling summation points, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

Hraabo
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Hello I hope someone can help me, as i am kinda stuck for the moment.
As you can see, the assignment states that I need to find the poles from the closed loop transfer function.

I plan on doing so, by using block diagram reduction method.

242346


This is as fare as I've come, and can't come further, even though I am pretty sure that it is possible. The summation point confuses me, how do I remove it? I could remove the feedback loop, but the summation point would still be there, or am I wrong?

Any help would be nice.
 
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[Moved from a technical forum. No template.]
 
You must not "remove" the feedback loop but instead combine it with the forward block (2s).
This part of the system is nothing else than a local feedback loop which can be replaced by one single block (using the well-known feedback expressions).
 
LvW said:
using the well-known feedback expressions
@Hraabo , there is your hint. What well-known feedback expression did he mean?
 

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