Bohr-Sommerfield quantization of motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of quantization of motion, specifically the old quantum condition and its implications in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the transition from old quantum theory to modern approaches, including the role of Schrödinger's equation and the nature of energy and momentum quantization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the old quantum condition is termed "old" and seek clarification on the concept of quantization of motion.
  • There is a suggestion that quantization implies a particle may jump between velocities in discrete steps, though this is not universally accepted.
  • One participant notes familiarity with Schrödinger's equation and its role in demonstrating energy quantization, raising the question of whether energy quantization also implies momentum quantization.
  • Another participant describes the original idea of electrons orbiting the nucleus under classical mechanics with restrictions imposed by quantization conditions, mentioning the concept of "quantum leaps."
  • Participants discuss the modern quantum condition as defined by Schrödinger's equation, emphasizing the requirement for solutions to yield square-integrable functions.
  • A question arises regarding the terminology of "stationary states" in relation to the new quantum condition.
  • One participant references external sources for further understanding of old quantum theory and mentions that its modern form is semiclassical quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation regarding the old and new quantum conditions, with some agreeing on the role of Schrödinger's equation while others remain uncertain about the implications of quantization on motion and energy.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the relationship between energy and momentum quantization, as well as the implications of quantization on particle motion. The discussion reflects differing interpretations of classical and quantum mechanics.

weezy
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From wikipedia I understand that the old quantum condition $$\oint_{H(p,q)=E} p_i dq_i = n_i h $$ states that not all kinds of motion are permitted in a system. My question is why is this called the old quantum condition and what is quantization of motion? Does this mean that a particle jumps from velocity ##v_1 \rightarrow v_2## in a certain step ? I am mostly familiar with Schrödinger's equation which can be solved to see that Energy levels of a particle in a box are quantized. But does energy quantization imply momentum quantization as well? I understand the motivation of this principle comes from visualizing a particle as a wave but most experienced physicists say that is an outdated concept. If that is the case then what's the newer approach or the new quantum condition?
 
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weezy said:
From wikipedia I understand that the old quantum condition $$\oint_{H(p,q)=E} p_i dq_i = n_i h $$ states that not all kinds of motion are permitted in a system. My question is why is this called the old quantum condition and what is quantization of motion? Does this mean that a particle jumps from velocity ##v_1 \rightarrow v_2## in a certain step ? I am mostly familiar with Schrödinger's equation which can be solved to see that Energy levels of a particle in a box are quantized. But does energy quantization imply momentum quantization as well? I understand the motivation of this principle comes from visualizing a particle as a wave but most experienced physicists say that is an outdated concept. If that is the case then what's the newer approach or the new quantum condition?

The original idea was that an electron orbited the nucleus of an atom in the same way it would in classical mechanics, except that there was an additional restricting the orbits to those satisfying the quantization condition. The hypothesis was that if you tried to add energy to the system, the system would not absorb the energy in discrete quantities such that the quantization condition held before and after the absorption. (This was the "quantum leap" from one energy level to another).

The new quantum condition is given by Schrödinger's equation--the energy can only take on those values for which the time-independent Schrödinger equation can be solved to produce a square-integrable function.
 
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stevendaryl said:
The new quantum condition is given by Schrödinger's equation--the energy can only take on those values for which the time-independent Schrödinger equation can be solved to produce a square-integrable function.

You mean the stationary states?
 

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